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Finland Abandons 'Helicopter Money' Experiment: No New Jobs Created
02-10-2019, 02:24 AM #1
Me? Incognito Anonymous
 
So now they finally tell me! I coudda used a pot full of markkas!

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-02-0...bs-created
02-10-2019, 02:33 AM #2
Octo Mother Superior
Posts:41,294 Threads:1,580 Joined:Feb 2011
Yeah? You missed that train by a couple of decades.

Zerohedge has it wrong with that sensational headline and I'm disappointed they do this sort of shit. Finland didn't abandon the basic income experiment, the experiment is over and it's the evaluation that is just now out.

People with basic income didn't apply for more jobs, but they were happier.
Quote:Finland's basic income findings: More happiness, but no effect on employment

The basic income experiment did not increase participants’ employment levels in the first year (2017) of the two-year experiment. But by the end of the trial, basic income recipients’ perceived wellbeing was better than that of those in the control group.

https://yle.fi/uutiset/osasto/news/finla...t/10637492
02-10-2019, 03:56 AM #3
Me? Incognito Anonymous
 
(02-10-2019, 02:33 AM)Octo Wrote:  Yeah? You missed that train by a couple of decades.

Zerohedge has it wrong with that sensational headline and I'm disappointed they do this sort of shit. Finland didn't abandon the basic income experiment, the experiment is over and it's the evaluation that is just now out.

People with basic income didn't apply for more jobs, but they were happier.
Quote:Finland's basic income findings: More happiness, but no effect on employment

The basic income experiment did not increase participants’ employment levels in the first year (2017) of the two-year experiment. But by the end of the trial, basic income recipients’ perceived wellbeing was better than that of those in the control group.

https://yle.fi/uutiset/osasto/news/finla...t/10637492

Miss by  minute or miss by a mile, I missed it.

As for the happiness survey, it's hard to imagine where they could have phrased the question in a way where the respondents would say they were unhappy to receive more money. IOW, one wonders if the question was added to cover the disaster of the original scheme.
02-10-2019, 03:50 PM #4
Octo Mother Superior
Posts:41,294 Threads:1,580 Joined:Feb 2011
It's a bit funny to watch zerohedge so triggered by this experiment. Nobody got more money, the participants (who were unemployed) got basically the same amount of money they would have received in the form of unemployment benefits. The stress levels dropped radically among the participants due to lack of bureaucracy and hassle.

It would be reasonable to think it's going to save money in the long run to keep people happy. Happy people are healthier.
02-10-2019, 08:19 PM #5
Me? Incognito Anonymous
 
(02-10-2019, 03:50 PM)Octo Wrote:  It's a bit funny to watch zerohedge so triggered by this experiment. Nobody got more money, the participants (who were unemployed) got basically the same amount of money they would have received in the form of unemployment benefits. The stress levels dropped radically among the participants due to lack of bureaucracy and hassle.

It would be reasonable to think it's going to save money in the long run to keep people happy. Happy people are healthier.

Yes, that would be true - especially if it applied to the people who were not part of the poll. The question produced an artificial happiness response quotient. IOW, if someone wasn't asked the fake agenda driven polling question designed to elicit the desired response, they would be no happier.
02-10-2019, 08:28 PM #6
Me? Incognito Anonymous
 
Let me attempt to say this more plainly.

The respondents were asked if they were happier having more money. But they really didn't have more money - what they really had was more paper.

Money is a medium of exchange. If the medium increases in size it shrinks what one can exchange for the paper.

If someone asks, does having more money now make you happier, I might think, "Sure, because prices sure have gone up and without it, I'd be screwed." and respond according to that thought process.
02-10-2019, 08:53 PM #7
Octo Mother Superior
Posts:41,294 Threads:1,580 Joined:Feb 2011
I think you're overthinking this. This experiment was to explore future changes in our welfare system. The outrage in right wing media has been hilarious to watch.
02-10-2019, 09:04 PM #8
Me? Incognito Anonymous
 
(02-10-2019, 08:53 PM)Octo Wrote:  I think you're overthinking this. This experiment was to explore future changes in our welfare system. The outrage in right wing media has been hilarious to watch.

I don't "think" so. The survey is being used to drive an agenda and possibly to cover up their mistake by wrapping themselves in the flag of making people feel happy, and who could be opposed to that? Well, does it make any sense to devote resources to a plan that produces nothing job wise or happinesswise by using an intentionally deeply flawed ruse of a survey?

In fact, the survey cost additional taxpayer money to produce, didn't it?
02-11-2019, 08:13 PM #9
Octo Mother Superior
Posts:41,294 Threads:1,580 Joined:Feb 2011
On what grounds are you dismissing the survey as flawed? Did you read it? It was a 2 year experiment to see what effects basic income has as the welfare system is going to face some changes in the future, not sure what your problem is with how Finland is experimenting. 13.gif
02-11-2019, 08:19 PM #10
Me? Incognito Anonymous
 
(02-11-2019, 08:13 PM)Octo Wrote:  On what grounds are you dismissing the survey as flawed? Did you read it? It was a 2 year experiment to see what effects basic income has as the welfare system is going to face some changes in the future, not sure what your problem is with how Finland is experimenting.  13.gif

I've explained why the survey is flawed as best I can. The time period really doesn't change the flaw in the so-called study. It's just more tax payer money to justify the desired outcome.
Octo nli Show this Post
02-12-2019, 05:48 PM #11
Octo nli Incognito Anonymous
 
But you don't know anything about the study other than what zerohedge and I have posted about it ffs, but I'll let the agency know you think their study is flawed. I'm sure they will consult you next time.
02-12-2019, 10:08 PM #12
JayRodney ⓐⓛⓘⓔⓝ
Posts:30,202 Threads:1,487 Joined:Feb 2011
Extra cash makes everybody a bit happier. I get it.

wonder.gif

02-13-2019, 04:32 AM #13
UniqueStranger Art in my heart
Posts:15,232 Threads:456 Joined:Jun 2012
Free cash so you don't have to work is even better. Is that money taxed?
02-13-2019, 06:54 AM #14
Me? Incognito Anonymous
 
(02-12-2019, 05:48 PM)Octo nli Wrote:  But you don't know anything about the study other than what zerohedge and I have posted about it ffs, but I'll let the agency know you think their study is flawed. I'm sure they will consult you next time.

There are two parts to the study. I've expressed what is wrong with the premise of the happiness portion. I didn't get not the fools gold of inflation as a short term fix, but Pinoccio's transformation into a donkey applies here.

There is no need to relay what I've said to whatever agency you might have in mind. They know what they are doing already. Calling out people who are schemers for their scheming usually brings forth the most blustering of all. Their feigned indignation typically soars. you like what they have done. I hope it works out for all concerned.
02-13-2019, 06:56 AM #15
Me? Incognito Anonymous
 
(02-13-2019, 06:54 AM)Me? Wrote:  
(02-12-2019, 05:48 PM)Octo nli Wrote:  But you don't know anything about the study other than what zerohedge and I have posted about it ffs, but I'll let the agency know you think their study is flawed. I'm sure they will consult you next time.

There are two parts to the study. I've expressed what is wrong with the premise of the happiness portion. I didn't get not the fools gold of inflation as a short term fix, but Pinoccio's transformation into a donkey applies here.

There is no need to relay what I've said to whatever agency you might have in mind. They know what they are doing already. Calling out people who are schemers for their scheming usually brings forth the most blustering of all. Their feigned indignation typically soars. you like what they have done. I hope it works out for all concerned.

EDIT: "I didn't get not the fools gold of inflation as a short term fix, but Pinoccio's transformation into a donkey applies here. " s/b I didn't get to the fools gold of inflation as a short term fix, but Pinoccio's transformation into a donkey applies here.



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