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Finland's minister of the interior causes thousands to drop out of church
07-11-2013, 09:24 PM #1
Octo Mother Superior
Posts:43,356 Threads:1,482 Joined:Feb 2011
This has nothing to do with the recent riots here on the forum, but it has been on the news for a couple of days and it's outrageous imo. How can these extremists be ministers in this country? gaah.gifdamned.gif

Also posting this because I recently said on some abortion thread here that there is no abortion debate here. Well, I wouldn't call the statement of the minister a debate. It has caused an exodus from church for the last couple of days.

Let me start out by saying Finland has state religions:

Quote:Most people in Finland are at least nominally members of a Christian church. There are presently two state churches: the Evangelical Lutheran Church of Finland, which is the primary state religion and enjoys a membership of about three quarters of the population, and the Finnish Orthodox Church, which enjoys a membership of about one percent of the population.[1][2] Prior to Christianisation in the 11th century, Finnish paganism was the primary religion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Finland

If your parents are members of a church, your children will automatically also be members of it and you will pay 1% tax to that church. damned.gif

We're not members of any church, me and the father of our firstborn bugged out right before he was born. These are things you shouldn't decide for anyone else.

Anyway here's what she said:

<snip>
Quote:Finland's Interior Minister, and Christian Democratic Party leader, Päivi Räsänen has made a forceful attack on Finnish abortion legislation. Speaking at a Lutheran Church event, Räsänen said that animals are better protected than are human foetuses.

Räsänen also pointed out that Finland and Sweden are the only European countries where healthcare personnel do not have the legal right to refuse to carry out abortions on the basis of their personal convictions.
Bible before law

The Interior Minister let it be understood that in a conflicting situation, the Bible should take precedence over the law.

"We have to consider whether we have the courage to act in the face of general public opinion or norms, peer pressure, and sometimes even the law, if these contradict the word of God," Räsänen said.

As guideline to conflicts between the Bible and the law, Räsänen, whose ministerial post also includes religious affairs, borrowed from the words of the Apostles, saying, “We must obey God rather than men."

http://yle.fi/uutiset/interior_minister_...ry/6727521

Here's how people reacted to her statement:

Quote:Controversial statements from Interior Minister Päivi Räsänen led to a larger-than-usual number of Finns leaving the Finnish Lutheran church via an online service on Wednesday.

On a normal day fewer than a hundred people resign from the church using the eroakirkosta.fi website.

On Wednesday the figure was 960, after Christian Democrat leader and Interior Minister Päivi Räsänen made a controversial speech including comments comparing abortion to 'butchery' and suggesting people should place the bible above the law in any situations where they might conflict.

http://yle.fi/uutiset/rasanens_comments_...ns/6728183

Over 700 hundred dropped out today (this afternoon)

The Bishop had to of course make a statement and said:

Quote:"Religious affairs belong to her area of responsibility, which makes this statement rather problematic. The church should not be above the law"

(link in Swedish) http://svenska.yle.fi/artikel/2013/07/11...zityskland

The minister had to of course make a statement to explain her standpoint.

Then she comes up with this? damned.gifwtf2.gif

Quote:Räsänen explains her point of view with an example from history.

I don't think anybody is of the opinion that they in Nazi Germany should have obeyed the soldiers' orders.

(same Swedish link as above)

Seriously wtf2.gif

damned.gif

What the hell!
07-11-2013, 09:45 PM #2
UniqueStranger Art in my heart
Posts:15,179 Threads:429 Joined:Jun 2012
Quote:Bible before law

There seem to be no rights for women in the Bible, just saying.
07-11-2013, 09:54 PM #3
Octo Mother Superior
Posts:43,356 Threads:1,482 Joined:Feb 2011
You may have noticed that Finland was Christianized pretty late. And up here on the coast, just some 10 km from us they were still shooting anything resembling a priest and/or associates up till the 17th century. Women have not been regarded as lesser beings here before organized religion and that sort of thinking never took hold very well. I guess that's a reason they feel a need to enforce a state religion.

In fact, shamans used to dress in women's clothing because women were considered to be in closer contact with the spirits and hoped to use that advantage to fool the spirits.
07-11-2013, 09:54 PM #4
JayRodney ⓐⓛⓘⓔⓝ
Posts:31,572 Threads:1,443 Joined:Feb 2011
I don't know what bothers me more.

The fact that Finland still has something as archaic as State sponsored churches or this Interior Minister that appears to be on a rolling logic blackout.

If Finland is unfortunate enough have an Interior Minister that claims any institution "above the law" then you have a dangerous recipe for tyranny in the making.

Then, to counter the last statement, she becomes even more nonsensical by stating "I don't think anybody is of the opinion that they in Nazi Germany should have obeyed the soldiers' orders."

damned.gif What the hell did that have to do with anything? Is Finnish law considered Nazism by Finland's Interior Minister, and Christian Democratic Party leader, Päivi Räsänen?

I believe it's time for a formal separation of church and state here, radical politicians such as this are dangerously closer to Nazism than the rule of law will ever be.

wonder.gif
07-12-2013, 11:38 AM #5
Kreeper Griobhtha
Posts:10,847 Threads:655 Joined:Feb 2011
Dayyyyyuuummmmmm!

That bitch is karazy! Even Dubyah didn't go that far. She is right up there with Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson!


damned.gif

Politicians hide themselves away
They only started the war
Why should they go out to fight?
They leave that role to poor
07-12-2013, 11:55 AM #6
Cynicalabsurdance Member
Posts:9,212 Threads:211 Joined:Feb 2011
what is it that affects the minds of some ,
when a Bible quote hits their ears and they become tyrannical ?

I have read the Bible for well over 50 years

at no time , at any time of the reading , did i ever feel the need
to bounce on others with a mind warped concept about
their bodies or minds , much less their souls .

it's a read of dusty old tales , long gone in time and way behind
these times .

It is at best a Mythical relating .

Not to be taken as Fact .

Dribble from Old Celibate Desert dweller Priest
and Royal Dirt grubbing whores,, whose greatest claim to fame
was their ability at Pimping their wives and herding
other people's live stock into their own corrals .

Something in the verses of that damned book,,
has an adverse reaction to rational thought .

It's like say a verse and watch a transformation of a good mind
into a complete moron .

and to base laws on 4000 year old Desert Rat Dribble FFS

Oh no , place the woman in a Psyche Ward .

Tie her tubes so she does not Procreate .

07-12-2013, 12:06 PM #7
Accidental Stoner Member
Posts:9,036 Threads:74 Joined:Feb 2011
(07-11-2013, 09:54 PM)Octo Wrote:  You may have noticed that Finland was Christianized pretty late. And up here on the coast, just some 10 km from us they were still shooting anything resembling a priest and/or associates up till the 17th century. Women have not been regarded as lesser beings here before organized religion and that sort of thinking never took hold very well. I guess that's a reason they feel a need to enforce a state religion.

In fact, shamans used to dress in women's clothing because women were considered to be in closer contact with the spirits and hoped to use that advantage to fool the spirits.


Muahhahhahhah!
The righteous Dame Räsänen is a fundie? Suspected as much.

İmage

Yup.
The whole f**king scam mob boss Erik Jedvardsson and
his faithful wiseguy sidekick Bishop Henrik started is bogus.
Took some 900 years, but it's finally coming apart chuckle.gif

The statement about Nazi Germany is...well... blink.gif
Just wtf2.gif
...how stupid will it get?

What a bloody farse.

sad2.gif

İmage
07-12-2013, 12:24 PM #8
Cynicalabsurdance Member
Posts:9,212 Threads:211 Joined:Feb 2011
Nice Pic AC

looking at her

I tried to imagine allowing someone like that
to make a choice for me ,,,


eeewwwwww GGGGGGGGGGGGRRRRRRRRRRRRRrrrrrrrrrrr

I'd kill it first .

no emotion would i feel for doing so either .

How is it that people like her and the Pols we have here
in the states
get into positions where they set rules above people ?

Leaders have to be of a Higher Thought process
in order to make logical decisions for other people .

Not sick and twisted superstitious morons .
07-12-2013, 12:34 PM #9
Accidental Stoner Member
Posts:9,036 Threads:74 Joined:Feb 2011
Well, the homegrown fundies over here are usually
not that loudmouthed with their asininities.

Of course she's a Christ Democrat 15.gif
...still makes me suspect she got the cue from the
Overlords of the great agenda.

13.gif

Friggin freak show.
No matter the party, really.
You have to feel a bit offended, as a private citizen
of at least pretty close to normal intelligency, at this
specific level of stupid, though.
What the hell sort of morons they think we are..?

smiley-flip-bird.gif
07-12-2013, 12:45 PM #10
Cynicalabsurdance Member
Posts:9,212 Threads:211 Joined:Feb 2011
who the hell has a STATE CHURCH these days ?

a STATE CHURCH ?

You have to be a member of a CHURCH ?

oh no

revamp

just go ahead and revamp the whole Government .
07-12-2013, 12:49 PM #11
Accidental Stoner Member
Posts:9,036 Threads:74 Joined:Feb 2011
Well, there's no charge at the Church Office
when you ask them to remove your name
from the list of official devoted followers...

Did that long time ago.
07-12-2013, 07:30 PM #12
j browsing Member
Posts:5,158 Threads:1,098 Joined:Jul 2012
this is outrageous...people should have the freedom to choose..and respect for each others choice..not be forced into something ..13.gif

"when life gives you lemons..throw them at someone"...Grumpy Cat good.png
07-12-2013, 08:01 PM #13
JayRodney ⓐⓛⓘⓔⓝ
Posts:31,572 Threads:1,443 Joined:Feb 2011
I was told when I came here that I should give a certain percentage to the church at this Swedish language school I attended.
I told them I believe in God, but due to history could not support organized religion in any form. They countered if you pay that you'll have a place to be buried.
I said who the hell cares where I'm buried, I'd just as soon be thrown in a field and become fertilizer, and look at all the money I saved by not supporting a concept as medieval as a state sponsored church.
Logic wins again.
I don't know how in the hell in a basically progressive county, this shït ignorant obsolete, antiquated crap hangs on like herpes.

wonder.gif
07-12-2013, 08:12 PM #14
j browsing Member
Posts:5,158 Threads:1,098 Joined:Jul 2012
JR you are a good man with a kind heart..and as far as being buried..i don't worry about that either..hell I told the big labowski just have me cremated and put my ashes in his used beer cans chuckle.gif

"when life gives you lemons..throw them at someone"...Grumpy Cat good.png
07-12-2013, 08:24 PM #15
Octo Mother Superior
Posts:43,356 Threads:1,482 Joined:Feb 2011
Yeah my dad said too years ago when Grandma said she's saving money for her funeral so that nobody else will have to pay for it, "bah, they're just gonna have to fukn leave me on top of the ground"

chuckle.gif

It's not like you're not going to be buried if you're not a member of the church, you just do it privately. And burials are not cheaper even if you paid church tax all your life.



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