(07-05-2015, 06:52 PM)Shadow Wrote:  

(07-05-2015, 06:49 PM)UniqueStranger Wrote:  I read, recently, that 80+ percent of the Greek people want to stay with the Euro, but that will hurt.

Then they don't get that the Euro is where their debt troubles compounded. Read my post #38 above.

I don't disagree, but that was the result of a poll taken recently.

(07-05-2015, 06:56 PM)UniqueStranger Wrote:  I don't disagree, but that was the result of a poll taken recently.

(07-05-2015, 07:01 PM)Shadow Wrote:  

(07-05-2015, 06:56 PM)UniqueStranger Wrote:  I don't disagree, but that was the result of a poll taken recently.

Greece just may be Europe's soft underbelly. TPTB have their ways of fixing this...maybe forgiving most of the debt? Let's begin again.

(07-05-2015, 07:03 PM)UniqueStranger Wrote:  Greece just may be Europe's soft underbelly. TPTB have their ways of fixing this...maybe forgiving most of the debt? Let's begin again.

I laud your optimism, but TPTB have their ways of creating this. They don't care about money, they simply print it, what they want is tangible wealth and they get it by creating debt. Opinion polls aren't about what others think, they're about what you are supposed to believe others think.

ok i have no idea what any of this means at all..
because i thought they did this all before with riots n that.

so i asked O cause she knows stuff like this. and can dumb it down to my level eh.

so basically from what i understand, they will never be able to pay off the money from before til the earth is done..
so..
seems to me kinda stupid to take more loans does it not..?

(07-05-2015, 07:24 PM)Coolchick Wrote:  ok i have no idea what any of this means at all..
because i thought they did this all before with riots n that.

so i asked O cause she knows stuff like this. and can dumb it down to my level eh.

so basically from what i understand, they will never be able to pay off the money from before til the earth is done..
so..
seems to me kinda stupid to take more loans does it not..?

Then there is the question, "Why would any entity give them more loans, when they could not pay off their existing loans"? So, the money lenders are to blame for incompetence and continuing to play to a failed economic system. Let's begin again. Round and round we go, where we stop, nobody knows.

?

'No' celebrations begin

Celebrations have begun in central Athens among 'No' voters as lead stands at 61 per cent with around 40 per cent of votes in.

Greece is facing unprecedented uncertainty, but that hasn't stopped these Athenians from taking to the streets in delight.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/econo...-live.html

let the fascist euro burn.

(07-05-2015, 07:11 PM)Shadow Wrote:  

(07-05-2015, 07:03 PM)UniqueStranger Wrote:  Greece just may be Europe's soft underbelly. TPTB have their ways of fixing this...maybe forgiving most of the debt? Let's begin again.

I laud your optimism, but TPTB have their ways of creating this. They don't care about money, they simply print it, what they want is tangible wealth and they get it by creating debt. Opinion polls aren't about what others think, they're about what you are supposed to believe others think.

That's not how it is, ask any econ student. Quit acting like this gawd damn place some bastion of truth ffsi

(07-05-2015, 06:20 PM)Shadow Wrote:  

Quote:First let me say that the Greeks are not innocent victims and have much responsibility in their problems. However, it is important to understand how the Greek nation entered the Euro.

Germany loved the concept of the Euro because as the county with the most sound currency, blending that currency with other weaker currencies would lower the value of the currency they did business in (Duetsche Mark). This would be advantageous to their already strong export business, would allow them to payback debt at a discount, and allow their banks a monopoly on loaning to other EU nations. Win,win, win.

Bringing in Greece and other Mediterranean countries was seen as a no brainer if you follow the above script. Talk about lowering the value of one's currency. Has the Drachma or Lira ever been known for it's stability? Bring them in and make the Euro even cheaper. More exports for the Germans, easier debt loads and more suckers to lend to. The problem with Greece was that (surprise) it's balance sheet was crap. Too much debt to "qualify" for inclusion. But that didn't stop the Euro masters. Nope - the went to the most powerful political family in Greece (Papandreou) and sold the dream to him...or more like bribed him. Isn't interesting how a politician can get so rich??? The Papandreou family is among the wealthiest in Euro; unofficially of course. This socialist family has done more harm over the years to the Greek nation than any other entity. But they are charismatic and the Greek love them. Similar to the way the people of Chicago loved Capone so much in his heyday.

Back to the story - The EU "led" Papa to Goldman Sachs. GS devised a plan using bullsheet derivatives to move a bunch of Greece's debt "off the balance sheet". Abracadabra Greece now can get in the EU! Only their debt really didn't go away.

After being told how wonderful it would be to join the EU the ignorant Greek bought it hook, line and sinker. Now comes the real kick in the "balls". Greece's economy wasn't doing all that bad at the time, actually better than expected. But in order to get as much blood from them, the EU (led by the Germans) gave them loan shark terms in regards to the conversion ratio. In other words, the ratio to convert Greek Drachmas to Euros was 20-30% undervaluing the Drachma. It's like a bank taking over your mortgage and demanding payment in a currency worth 30% more than the dollar. What a deal, huh? Essentially a ticking time bomb.

Things went well enough until the 2007-08 crisis that led the Fed to drastically lower interest rates and eventually start QE. The result of this sent the Euro flying against the Dollar and that was the real nail in the coffin for Greece, which had run up amazing amounts of debt on Socialist programs and not to mention the 2004 Olympics. The other "tax collection" issues ingrained in Greek society did not help. In was soon found out the Papandreou had movied $millions out of the country in his wife's name. Still, the Greek love him.

In my opinion, the EU led by the Germans acted like a loan shark by lending to somebody they knew couldn't pay back. Instead of writing down that debt, they want to extract as much blood as possible. Bankruptcy laws do not exist to them. Ironic how it's the Germans that were a victim of this loan sharking ( which helped trigger WWII ) in their past and the beneficiaries of the greatest restructuring program in World history (The Marshall Plan) that want the blood the most.

In the end, a number of people got very rich and now tens of millions will suffer horribly for it.

http://www.goldismoney2.com/showthread.p...post890409

Thanks for bringing that to my attention!

Here is the root problem, explained so that even I,
an economic, juridical and administrative ignoramus,
understand it:





Until the original cause is addressed openly, nothing
will/can eliminate the symptoms, as far as I can see.

Greece asks for third bailout, pledges reforms

http://www.cnbc.com/id/102813959

Greece needs to think of how to make money via exports and new businesses. What do they have now besides tourism and some shipping.