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Is the need of salvation an evil lie from religions?
03-16-2016, 11:48 PM #46
Jim Rat Member
Posts:144 Threads:1 Joined:Feb 2016
(03-16-2016, 05:11 PM)Greatest I am Wrote:  
(03-16-2016, 06:10 AM)Jim Rat Wrote:  I'm not a Theologian, so I don't claim to have all the answers (real Theologians don't either). Also, there are so many threads here there's no way I can address all of them, so I won't try.

So I'll just do what almost everyone else has done and just relate my Belief System(BS).

I asked whatshisname to define Universalism and hell but he failed. My BS says that Universalism means that everyone CAN be "saved" but that not everyone will. Christ teaches that so it's hard to argue. Since Christ teaches it, it's not an "evil lie" by definition. Christians disagree on what hell is. Fundamentalists and Atheists say it's a place of fire and brimstone. Some say it's a state of separation from God, others say it's annihilation. Some others even say there is no hell, it's just a metaphor. So before you get all excited about hell make sure your audience knows what the hell you're talking about.

The question of whether those who have never heard of Christ go to hell. Jesus said the most important commandment was "To love God." The 2nd most important was "To love each other". At another place He said, "If you love Me, you will obey my commandment, which is this, 'Love your neighbor as you love yourself'" That's it. That's the whole secret of salvation. It's love. If you can do that then you're obeying Christ's commandments. This is why I acted the way I did around "religious" talk. I don't believe in religions, I just believe in God's love.

BTW, God doesn't SEND anyone to hell. You have to volunteer to go. It's all about Free Will. You can choose God or you can turn away. Your choice.

This is getting too long so I'll stop. Glad to engage in conversation with anyone open-minded enough to at least try to understand...

You are a shallow thinker who redefines terms to suit your foolish beliefs.

Christians are always trying to absolve God of moral culpability in the fall by whipping out their favorite "free will!", or “ it’s all man’s fault”.

That is "God gave us free will and it was our free willed choices that caused our fall. Hence God is not blameworthy."

But this simply avoids God's culpability as the author of Human Nature. Free will is only the ability to choose. It is not an explanation why anyone would want to choose "A" or "B" (bad or good action). An explanation for why Eve would even have the nature of "being vulnerable to being easily swayed by a serpent" and "desiring to eat a forbidden fruit" must lie in the nature God gave Eve in the first place. Hence God is culpable for deliberately making humans with a nature-inclined-to-fall, and "free will" means nothing as a response to this problem.

If all sin by nature then, the sin nature is dominant. If not, we would have at least some who would not sin. That being the case, for God to punish us for following the instincts and natures he put in us would be quite wrong.

Regards
DL

Yeah, it's that "open-minded" thing I was talking about. Most folks here have it, you don't. You're not interested in a free conversation. You're only interested in dictating your beliefs to everyone else. It's not for me.

Have a happy.
Greatest I am Show this Post
03-17-2016, 02:35 AM #47
Greatest I am Incognito Anonymous
 
(03-16-2016, 11:48 PM)Jim Rat Wrote:  
(03-16-2016, 05:11 PM)Greatest I am Wrote:  
(03-16-2016, 06:10 AM)Jim Rat Wrote:  I'm not a Theologian, so I don't claim to have all the answers (real Theologians don't either). Also, there are so many threads here there's no way I can address all of them, so I won't try.

So I'll just do what almost everyone else has done and just relate my Belief System(BS).

I asked whatshisname to define Universalism and hell but he failed. My BS says that Universalism means that everyone CAN be "saved" but that not everyone will. Christ teaches that so it's hard to argue. Since Christ teaches it, it's not an "evil lie" by definition. Christians disagree on what hell is. Fundamentalists and Atheists say it's a place of fire and brimstone. Some say it's a state of separation from God, others say it's annihilation. Some others even say there is no hell, it's just a metaphor. So before you get all excited about hell make sure your audience knows what the hell you're talking about.

The question of whether those who have never heard of Christ go to hell. Jesus said the most important commandment was "To love God." The 2nd most important was "To love each other". At another place He said, "If you love Me, you will obey my commandment, which is this, 'Love your neighbor as you love yourself'" That's it. That's the whole secret of salvation. It's love. If you can do that then you're obeying Christ's commandments. This is why I acted the way I did around "religious" talk. I don't believe in religions, I just believe in God's love.

BTW, God doesn't SEND anyone to hell. You have to volunteer to go. It's all about Free Will. You can choose God or you can turn away. Your choice.

This is getting too long so I'll stop. Glad to engage in conversation with anyone open-minded enough to at least try to understand...

You are a shallow thinker who redefines terms to suit your foolish beliefs.

Christians are always trying to absolve God of moral culpability in the fall by whipping out their favorite "free will!", or “ it’s all man’s fault”.

That is "God gave us free will and it was our free willed choices that caused our fall. Hence God is not blameworthy."

But this simply avoids God's culpability as the author of Human Nature. Free will is only the ability to choose. It is not an explanation why anyone would want to choose "A" or "B" (bad or good action). An explanation for why Eve would even have the nature of "being vulnerable to being easily swayed by a serpent" and "desiring to eat a forbidden fruit" must lie in the nature God gave Eve in the first place. Hence God is culpable for deliberately making humans with a nature-inclined-to-fall, and "free will" means nothing as a response to this problem.

If all sin by nature then, the sin nature is dominant. If not, we would have at least some who would not sin. That being the case, for God to punish us for following the instincts and natures he put in us would be quite wrong.

Regards
DL

Yeah, it's that "open-minded" thing I was talking about. Most folks here have it, you don't. You're not interested in a free conversation. You're only interested in dictating your beliefs to everyone else. It's not for me.

Have a happy.

I was giving a rebuttal to what you put.

Why would I want to talk about someone else's beliefs if I do not believe as they do?

If all you want to talk about is what you believe then ---

Have a happy.

Regards
DL



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