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Morality of the A-bomb
02-22-2014, 01:53 AM #1
KILLUMINATI Made Ya Look!!
Posts:4,764 Threads:1,046 Joined:Jun 2012
It is logically insane and the question of whether or not it should've been used is also an insanely logical question in itself when you ask it from today's POV. When asked from the 1945 POV it becomes logical or insane but not both.

This info is kinda new to me but did you know that when we(US) fire-bombed Tokyo we killed somewhere between 100k-180k civilians and incinerated 16 square miles of the Japanese capital.

So my question was it insane to drop nukes on Japanese military targets to end the fighting or shoud we have continued with the firebombing that would have killed thousands of people daily? When answering the question you must put yourself in the mindset of the people in 1945 instead of today
02-22-2014, 02:20 AM #2
JayRodney ⓐⓛⓘⓔⓝ
Posts:31,396 Threads:1,439 Joined:Feb 2011
There's nothing moral about war. The people who did this in the 40's wanted to show the world the superiority of their secret weapon, and make Japan an example.
Death tolls are never a real concern when, everyone is expendable, and nothing more than a statistic.
Morality never enters into the equation.
Do we kill a bunch at once, or little by little... the bunch at once was deemed to have more psychological impact, and it must have played a part as the Japanese surrendered shortly thereafter.

wonder.gif
02-22-2014, 02:49 AM #3
KILLUMINATI Made Ya Look!!
Posts:4,764 Threads:1,046 Joined:Jun 2012
(02-22-2014, 02:20 AM)JayRodney Wrote:  There's nothing moral about war. The people who did this in the 40's wanted to show the world the superiority of their secret weapon, and make Japan an example.
Death tolls are never a real concern when, everyone is expendable, and nothing more than a statistic.
Morality never enters into the equation.
Do we kill a bunch at once, or little by little... the bunch at once was deemed to have more psychological impact, and it must have played a part as the Japanese surrendered shortly thereafter.

So you dont think that anyone thought that ending the war quickly was the better thing to do as oppose to continued destruction of the country?
02-22-2014, 03:31 AM #4
Softy Incognito Anonymous
 
Think JayRodney is right,,,building these took time,,,

and they were going to use them,,,least show the Soviets

we had them,,,and could deliver,,,and maybe it shortened things,,,

maybe it would have ended anyway,,,but you can't go around

conquering countries,,,and doing some pretty bad stuff,,,and

then when you start to lose,,,yell uncle,,,and everything stops,,,

no,,,a little payback is in order,,,my opinion,,,and Tokyo was paper and wood,,,

and burned very well,,,too bad...

(:X
02-22-2014, 04:16 AM #5
Softy Incognito Anonymous
 
If ever a picture was worth a thousand words, it was the image of General MacArthur and Emperor Hirohito standing side by side during their historic first meeting on September 27, 1945. In it, a casually dressed MacArthur towers over the stiff, formally attired Emperor.

And the cultural barriers may be even more formidable than the factual ones: to many of his subjects, the "emperor of heaven" was not really a man at all, but the living embodiment of the Japanese people

This is the Hirohito the world also saw in 1975, when he finally realized his dream of visiting the United States, where he met John Wayne, was received by President Ford, and acquired a Mickey Mouse watch he wore for years.

Hirohito did his part to remake Japan along an American model, backing the new constitution, "renouncing" his divinity, and trying gamely to play the part of "Japan's first democrat." By the time his 62-year reign came to an end, Japan had risen like a Phoenix out of the postwar rubble to become one of the world's richest countries.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/macarthur/p...MEX97.html

the "god" emperor,,,

give you the vapors...

(:X
02-22-2014, 05:11 AM #6
KILLUMINATI Made Ya Look!!
Posts:4,764 Threads:1,046 Joined:Jun 2012
People say that there is never a reason to use those a-bombs. But what if you could end a major war that will kill millions by using it to take out say Germany before they could even start, would that be morally acceptable?
02-22-2014, 05:29 AM #7
Softy Incognito Anonymous
 
The whole history of the world is summed up in the fact that, when nations are strong, they are not always just, and when they wish to be just, they are no longer strong.

Churchill,,,

Patton has some good ones too,,,

morally acceptable???,,,why never,,,just ask a liberal,,,

la la la la la la land,,,now,,,if you wish to win,,,instead of lose,,,

the question answers itself...

(:X
02-22-2014, 05:41 AM #8
Softy Incognito Anonymous
 
Patton quotes,,,


"A good plan, violently executed now, is better than a perfect plan next week."

"Fixed fortifications are monuments to man's stupidity."

"In case of doubt, attack."

"May God have mercy upon my enemies, because I won't."

"In war the only sure defense is offense, and the efficiency of the offense depends on the warlike souls of those conducting it."

(:X
02-22-2014, 07:05 AM #9
Below Average Genius Member
Posts:1,899 Threads:148 Joined:Apr 2013
Japan wasn't ready to quit. There was about a three day gap between the bomb dropped on Hiroshima and the one dropped on Nagasaki yet the Japanese didn't surrender between those two dates.

They needed to be jolted twice to get them to surrender.

Had they not surrendered, it would have taken a land attack which would have produced a huge amount of American casualties. The civilian community was armed and ready to fight from fox holes.

We might still be fighting if we had to conduct a land attack.

Pray for me. hug.gif
02-22-2014, 08:33 AM #10
KILLUMINATI Made Ya Look!!
Posts:4,764 Threads:1,046 Joined:Jun 2012
(02-22-2014, 07:05 AM)Below Average Genius Wrote:  Japan wasn't ready to quit. There was about a three day gap between the bomb dropped on Hiroshima and the one dropped on Nagasaki yet the Japanese didn't surrender between those two dates.

They needed to be jolted twice to get them to surrender.

Had they not surrendered, it would have taken a land attack which would have produced a huge amount of American casualties. The civilian community was armed and ready to fight from fox holes.

We might still be fighting if we had to conduct a land attack.

They wouldn't just quit they had too much pride. You can see their pride today at Fukushima and how they won't ask the world for help.

Quote:Leaflets dropped on cities in Japan warning civilians about the atomic bomb, dropped c. August 6, 1945

TO THE JAPANESE PEOPLE:
America asks that you take immediate heed of what we say on this leaflet.

We are in possession of the most destructive explosive ever devised by man. A single one of our newly developed atomic bombs is actually the equivalent in explosive power to what 2000 of our giant B-29s can carry on a single mission. This awful fact is one for you to ponder and we solemnly assure you it is grimly accurate.

We have just begun to use this weapon against your homeland. If you still have any doubt, make inquiry as to what happened to Hiroshima when just one atomic bomb fell on that city.

Before using this bomb to destroy every resource of the military by which they are prolonging this useless war, we ask that you now petition the Emperor to end the war. Our president has outlined for you the thirteen consequences of an honorable surrender. We urge that you accept these consequences and begin the work of building a new, better and peace-loving Japan.

You should take steps now to cease military resistance. Otherwise, we shall resolutely employ this bomb and all our other superior weapons to promptly and forcefully end the war.

EVACUATE YOUR CITIES.

ATTENTION JAPANESE PEOPLE. EVACUATE YOUR CITIES.
Because your military leaders have rejected the thirteen part surrender declaration, two momentous events have occurred in the last few days.

The Soviet Union, because of this rejection on the part of the military has notified your Ambassador Sato that it has declared war on your nation. Thus, all powerful countries of the world are now at war with you.

Also, because of your leaders' refusal to accept the surrender declaration that would enable Japan to honorably end this useless war, we have employed our atomic bomb.

A single one of our newly developed atomic bombs is actually the equivalent in explosive power to what 2000 of our giant B-29s could have carried on a single mission. Radio Tokyo has told you that with the first use of this weapon of total destruction, Hiroshima was virtually destroyed.

Before we use this bomb again and again to destroy every resource of the military by which they are prolonging this useless war, petition the emperor now to end the war. Our president has outlined for you the thirteen consequences of an honorable surrender. We urge that you accept these consequences and begin the work of building a new, better, and peace-loving Japan.

Act at once or we shall resolutely employ this bomb and all our other superior weapons to promptly and forcefully end the war.

EVACUATE YOUR CITIES.

Here is another link with the other side of the argument.....
http://blog.nuclearsecrecy.com/2013/04/2...-too-late/
02-22-2014, 03:54 PM #11
Ruby Wolf Member
Posts:10,786 Threads:721 Joined:Oct 2012
Theres literally thousands of these sinister terrifying hydrogen bombs all over the world...

Any one of them could and would instantly destroy a city and kill millions of people...

Crush kill destroy by demons be driven thats what the powers that be do best...

Watch and listen to this horrifying diabolical pure evil being unleashed...

02-22-2014, 04:41 PM #12
UniqueStranger Art in my heart
Posts:15,064 Threads:428 Joined:Jun 2012
Quote:Proportionality – in bello
Proportionality demands that a battle ends before it becomes a massacre. This principle was behind Colin Powell's call to end military actions on the Highway of Death in the first Gulf War. A state must attain its military objectives by using no more force than is necessary to avoid disproportionate collateral damage to civilian life and property. Proportionality requires tempering the extent and violence of warfare’s destruction. The principle is utilitarian in seeking to minimize overall suffering. Still, attempts to fight a just war by attacking only military targets can still breach morality by employing disproportionate force. Nuclear weapons, of course, are impossible to use proportionately. Thus, a nuclear war is inherently unjust.

This is from Sheila T. Harty's paper entitled "Just-war Principles of Augustine".

For me, all violence and war seems immoral, but absolutely necessary unless one is willing to give up one's chosen way of life and freedoms for peace, but what type of peace is to be had for a conquered peoples?

As for those that thought it necessary to drop the A-bomb, I would assume the soldiers/warriors/politicians in charge made that decision based on 'last resort' battle strategies. I would assume that commanders' and soldiers' frames of mind were reprogrammed, so I can not comment as to the immorality of the act from a civilian (enjoying my peac and freedom), pacifist, nor religious point of view because I wasn't involved in that long, horrific war.

Was a survey, or interviews ever put to the American people at that time about what their thoughts on the dropping of the A-bomb were? I would be interested to know their opinions.
02-22-2014, 04:43 PM #13
ezrin Incognito Anonymous
 
(02-22-2014, 04:16 AM)Softy Wrote:  If ever a picture was worth a thousand words, it was the image of General MacArthur and Emperor Hirohito standing side by side during their historic first meeting on September 27, 1945. In it, a casually dressed MacArthur towers over the stiff, formally attired Emperor.

And the cultural barriers may be even more formidable than the factual ones: to many of his subjects, the "emperor of heaven" was not really a man at all, but the living embodiment of the Japanese people

This is the Hirohito the world also saw in 1975, when he finally realized his dream of visiting the United States, where he met John Wayne, was received by President Ford, and acquired a Mickey Mouse watch he wore for years.

Hirohito did his part to remake Japan along an American model, backing the new constitution, "renouncing" his divinity, and trying gamely to play the part of "Japan's first democrat." By the time his 62-year reign came to an end, Japan had risen like a Phoenix out of the postwar rubble to become one of the world's richest countries.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/macarthur/p...MEX97.html

the "god" emperor,,,

give you the vapors...

(:X

this one speaks to me:

İmage

i read somewhere that China lost 14 million people...wonder if that is true hmm.gif
02-22-2014, 06:38 PM #14
Softy Incognito Anonymous
 
Yep 14 million Chinese,,,

Japanese lost 2.7 million,,,

so,,,still got off easy,,,

and something like 10 percent of the chinese population today,,,

still hold a grudge,,,which makes the whole,,,

Sea of Japan party a little more dangerous...

(:X
02-22-2014, 06:52 PM #15
Ruby Wolf Member
Posts:10,786 Threads:721 Joined:Oct 2012
(02-22-2014, 06:38 PM)Softy Wrote:  Yep 14 million Chinese,,,

Japanese lost 2.7 million,,,

so,,,still got off easy,,,

and something like 10 percent of the chinese population today,,,

still hold a grudge,,,which makes the whole,,,

Sea of Japan party a little more dangerous...

(:X
War is the ultimate expression of racism and evil...

The united states lost around 400,000 people killed during world war two

Russia lost almost 30,000,000 people!

Dont ever hear to much about them do we?!

Like we always do the you know whos...

Squeaky wheels get the oil...



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