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Study suggests cannabis, magic mushrooms and ecstatic dancing was used as anaesthetic
03-18-2017, 01:26 AM #1
Octo Mother Superior
Posts:42,572 Threads:1,469 Joined:Feb 2011
Reconstructing brain surgery as it was conducted around 3,000 years ago

A critical element was plainly enabling the patient - in this case a male from an unknown ancient culture similar to the Karasuk people, but not one of them - to enter an 'altered state of mind' in which the pain was minimised.

Plants supposed as being used as painkillers in other locations are absent from Siberia, and instead Slepchenko and his colleagues identified flora which were used by indigenous peoples here to used to bring a person to an altered state of mind.

There are an intriguing number of such potential painkillers: for example, some ethnic groups used juniper and thyme in Shamanic practices; the Nivkhi people burned wild rosemary sticks and leaves; northern indigenous peoples used fly agaric mushrooms (Amanita muscarica), a powerful hallucinogen.

The 'most obvious', however, was probably cannabis.

But the consumption of fungi, together with other Shamanic practices, such as ecstatic dancing or the use of a drum, is seen as a likely method of altering the conscious state of a patient and so reducing pain to the extent necessary to carry out surgery.

http://siberiantimes.com/science/casestu...years-ago/

This man was not by any means the earliest known case of trepanation in Siberia: there are, for example, some dating to the Neolithic period.

spock.gif
03-18-2017, 12:53 PM #2
DaJavoo If looks could kilt
Posts:1,850 Threads:45 Joined:Mar 2011
They don't call it 'feelin' no pain' for nothing! chuckle.gif
03-18-2017, 01:04 PM #3
JayRodney ⓐⓛⓘⓔⓝ
Posts:31,262 Threads:1,438 Joined:Feb 2011
chuckle.gif Yup, that's a great description.

wonder.gif
03-18-2017, 01:46 PM #4
Berries Sunshine
Posts:95 Threads:1 Joined:Jan 2017
I've done some reading about these ancient medicinal plants and fungi some years ago, most of it is guesswork by scientists, but what I do find plausible anywhere near siberia would be the use of fly agarics, I recall seing some stuff mentioned about these possibly used in amputations and such in tv documentaries. Possibly some lichens as well, we do have lichens with both anti-inflammatory and psychoactive effects in even harsh climates. Also quite possible is the use of psilocybian fungi (which for me are the "real" magic mushrooms), although I haven't seen any really convincing evidence of such relating to siberian cultures, they don't have that much pastures around there.

This also brings me to mention thyme, as pointed to in the article, IS spychoactive, look up thymol, supposedly it acts very much like benzodiazepines. I haven't tried binging on thyme myself but people have told me about this over the net. The use of thyme around siberia is questionable in my view though, isn't it a herb found around the mediterranean and the middle-east? I'd imagine mostly romans and arabs used it.

One plant that I do believe could have been used to prevent bleeding and inflammations would be yarrow, achillea millefolium. It grows about everywhere and has traditionally been the main first-aid plant for blacksmiths in olden days around here. I usually keep some at home for making infusions to fight colds and it's one of the best things I've found to ease pain when accidentally biting ones cheek. It coagulates blood and has antimicrobial properties, so stuffing a wad of it in any sore works wonders compared to just rinsing the sore and covering it up.

About cannabis as an anaesthetic in old siberian cultures, well probably, ruderalis grows around all sorts of places. I suppose they would have known of ways to use that for sedation and pain relief as well. Although having tried cannabis for actual nerve induced pains I'm sceptical anyone would resort to only that for surgeries if say amanitas or psilocybes were available. For post operative pains and inflammation I do believe they might very well have been eating cannabis.

There seems to have been lots of knowledge of plant properties that have unfortunately been lost due to them probably only having been known by oral tradition. A good example of this was the iceman Ötzi with his fungi; they say he had lyme disease and the fungi he carried have medicinal properties to treat it.

TL;DR: some plants are real good for ya, but honestly most of us probably don't know Jack Schidt nowadays.

i kinda like it here on the innernen
03-18-2017, 01:58 PM #5
Octo Mother Superior
Posts:42,572 Threads:1,469 Joined:Feb 2011
I'm guessing they used pine bark as well.
03-18-2017, 02:07 PM #6
Berries Sunshine
Posts:95 Threads:1 Joined:Jan 2017
(03-18-2017, 01:58 PM)Octo Wrote:  I'm guessing they used pine bark as well.

Probably, lots of tree barks are healthful. I'd guess they used the needles as well. I recall reading about the finnish settlers in america getting along so well with the indigenous peoples partly due to not being afraid of using all sorts of bark concoctions, due to them both having this thing going on in their cultures.

i kinda like it here on the innernen
03-18-2017, 02:14 PM #7
Octo Mother Superior
Posts:42,572 Threads:1,469 Joined:Feb 2011
Yes, there are several usable parts on the pine tree; roots, shoots, needles, bark and resin. It has the 3rd highest amount of vitamin C (after seabuckthorn and rosehip) and the levels are peaking in winter coincidentally.

And yes, they got along tremendously with the natives

http://kritterbox.com/Topic-The-Findians
03-18-2017, 02:20 PM #8
Berries Sunshine
Posts:95 Threads:1 Joined:Jan 2017
Yea, the shoots are actually quite tasty in early summer, they have this citrus-like acidity to them. Kinda like juiced grass with lime, just fresher and sweeter.

i kinda like it here on the innernen
03-18-2017, 02:30 PM #9
Octo Mother Superior
Posts:42,572 Threads:1,469 Joined:Feb 2011
We make an effort to munch on those while they're tender in early summer. My Grandma said they used to chew on pine resin back in the days and at 102 she still has her own teeth.
03-18-2017, 02:37 PM #10
JayRodney ⓐⓛⓘⓔⓝ
Posts:31,262 Threads:1,438 Joined:Feb 2011
(03-18-2017, 02:20 PM)Berries Wrote:  Yea, the shoots are actually quite tasty in early summer, they have this citrus-like acidity to them. Kinda like juiced grass with lime, just fresher and sweeter.

yup.gif I love the early shoots too, bursting with vitamin C. Octo's Dad puts them in honey and uses them for a cold remedy.

wonder.gif
03-18-2017, 03:18 PM #11
Berries Sunshine
Posts:95 Threads:1 Joined:Jan 2017
I'll have to try that honey thing, sounds nice. Does he just put the fresh shoots straight into honey? Does he like chop them up or use heat in any way? I know that raw honey is antimicrobial so it ought to work without any extra work, but a tried and proven method would be nice.

All I've ever preserved in honey were psilocybes but that made more of a remedy for mental problems. chuckle.gif

My dad told me about him and others using the resin as chewing gum when he was little, he didn't know it was actually good for the teeth. I never got too fond of it since we had all these aspartame and acesulfame K coated, peppermint flavored xylitol gums. I've stopped chewing gum years ago but occasionally do chew and suck on lumps of resin if I happen to walk by damaged trees... I should probably gather some next time.

i kinda like it here on the innernen
03-18-2017, 03:29 PM #12
Octo Mother Superior
Posts:42,572 Threads:1,469 Joined:Feb 2011
I think he just put the whole shoot raw in a jar and covers with honey. And it might have been spruce shoots... hmm.gif

I'm going to gather some resin here this spring. I read you should collect it in the spring when it's fresh.
03-18-2017, 03:47 PM #13
Berries Sunshine
Posts:95 Threads:1 Joined:Jan 2017
Hmm, using spruce shoots sounds familiar as a cold remedy, they taste nice too. My granddad told me about making alcohol tincture from these as a cold remedy. Just fill up a bottle with them and fill the remaining space with 60% vodka and let it pull the goodies for at least two weeks, should be good for bad coughs. He was somewhat of a drunk though, I'd be inclined to try that honey instead.

I've tasted syrup made with spruce shoots and sugar, that stuff is often used as a dressing for icecream and other desserts in more expensive restaurants around here. A chef I know recommended this but I'm not sure about the health aspect of using lots of white sugar in anything, the syrup is really tasty though. It's made with just combining the shoots and sugar with a dash of water, then letting it sit for some hours, preferably overnight.

i kinda like it here on the innernen
03-18-2017, 04:21 PM #14
Octo Mother Superior
Posts:42,572 Threads:1,469 Joined:Feb 2011
Yes I read some recipes on pine shoot syrup and they all had sugar in them and also it called for the shoots to be boiled. As far as the vitamin C goes it's not a good idea to boil it, I think preserving them raw in honey would be best in that regard and you can eat them as well when you need a boost.

But of course they would have other properties too beside the vit C so maybe boiling has its advantages. I have to read more about it.
03-18-2017, 04:26 PM #15
JayRodney ⓐⓛⓘⓔⓝ
Posts:31,262 Threads:1,438 Joined:Feb 2011
drool.gif That sounds delicious. I'd love to try it with made with honey as opposed to the white poison. The taste of those shoots are not quite like anything else, I was surprised at the citrus quality of it.

wonder.gif



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