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The 1% don't take half my money. The government does.
07-19-2014, 08:56 PM #16
Shadow Mrs. Buckwheat
Posts:12,782 Threads:1,182 Joined:Feb 2011
(07-19-2014, 07:55 PM)failboat Wrote:  no. there won't be more money left for you to spend. the only difference is that corporations (private persons) will be the beneficiaries instead of the state.
it would probably weaken the state so much that in the end you'd have no rights and no choices at all. :/

How do you know that?
failboat Show this Post
07-19-2014, 09:00 PM #17
failboat Incognito Anonymous
 
(07-19-2014, 08:56 PM)Shadow Wrote:  
(07-19-2014, 07:55 PM)failboat Wrote:  no. there won't be more money left for you to spend. the only difference is that corporations (private persons) will be the beneficiaries instead of the state.
it would probably weaken the state so much that in the end you'd have no rights and no choices at all. :/

How do you know that?

are you kidding me? profit maximization is the goal of every company. if the consumer was able to pay X $ in taxes on each product or service they'll simply raise the prices of their products or services by X $ because they know that this price can definitely be paid because it has been paid before.
that's how it works.
07-19-2014, 09:04 PM #18
Octo Mother Superior
Posts:42,621 Threads:1,469 Joined:Feb 2011
Maybe some corporations would think like that, but they'd lose their business to the businesses who aren't. Competition.
07-19-2014, 09:06 PM #19
Shadow Mrs. Buckwheat
Posts:12,782 Threads:1,182 Joined:Feb 2011
(07-19-2014, 09:00 PM)failboat Wrote:  are you kidding me? profit maximization is the goal of every company. if the consumer was able to pay X $ in taxes on each product or service they'll simply raise the prices of their products or services by X $ because they know that this price can definitely be paid because it has been paid before.
that's how it works.

So how is that different from government simply taking it off your paycheck, deciding how much you pay for what services whether you need them or not?
07-19-2014, 09:10 PM #20
Shadow Mrs. Buckwheat
Posts:12,782 Threads:1,182 Joined:Feb 2011
(07-19-2014, 09:04 PM)Octo Wrote:  Maybe some corporations would think like that, but they'd lose their business to the businesses who aren't. Competition.

Bingo! Without gov we might just have a free market. But income tax is too good a racket to ever give up. There were schools and roads and hospitals before income taxes.
failboat Show this Post
07-19-2014, 09:39 PM #21
failboat Incognito Anonymous
 
(07-19-2014, 09:04 PM)Octo Wrote:  Maybe some corporations would think like that, but they'd lose their business to the businesses who aren't. Competition.

i think competition is a thought terminating cliche that works in magical ways... if competition regulated the price of goods the profits in a perfect capitalist society would converge to 0 as one competitor would be more desperate than another selling his goods more and more at the manufacturing costs. (the unskilled labor market comes to mind)
but what we observe in reality is a bit different: rising profits and rising prices.
so competition seems to work pretty good in textbooks but not so good in real life.
the reasons for that are manifold.
failboat Show this Post
07-19-2014, 09:46 PM #22
failboat Incognito Anonymous
 
(07-19-2014, 09:06 PM)Shadow Wrote:  
(07-19-2014, 09:00 PM)failboat Wrote:  are you kidding me? profit maximization is the goal of every company. if the consumer was able to pay X $ in taxes on each product or service they'll simply raise the prices of their products or services by X $ because they know that this price can definitely be paid because it has been paid before.
that's how it works.

So how is that different from government simply taking it off your paycheck, deciding how much you pay for what services whether you need them or not?

the government isn't simply some service provider. it's the very pillar your society is build upon. there are millions of people in your society which have different needs. some people don't need roads for example. does that mean that they shouldn't pay for roads?
what i want to say is that there are things which one single person doesn't need or can't afford but which are simply necessary for a society to work as a whole.
07-19-2014, 10:02 PM #23
Octo Mother Superior
Posts:42,621 Threads:1,469 Joined:Feb 2011
(07-19-2014, 09:39 PM)failboat Wrote:  so competition seems to work pretty good in textbooks but not so good in real life.

Actually, here in this town food prices have come down at our biggest store chains after Lidl established itself here.
failboat Show this Post
07-19-2014, 10:07 PM #24
failboat Incognito Anonymous
 
(07-19-2014, 10:02 PM)Octo Wrote:  
(07-19-2014, 09:39 PM)failboat Wrote:  so competition seems to work pretty good in textbooks but not so good in real life.

Actually, here in this town food prices have come down at our biggest store chains after Lidl established itself here.

prices will rise again. i'm not talking about short term fluctuation here. i'm talking about the long term stuff.
07-19-2014, 10:19 PM #25
Octo Mother Superior
Posts:42,621 Threads:1,469 Joined:Feb 2011
This is a long term observation. Lidl has been here for many years, but they're increasingly stealing customers from Finnish store chains. I think it's a great thing. Finland has the highest food prices in Europe mainly because there are only two domestic players. Lidl has become a pain in the ass and the food prices are coming down.

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07-19-2014, 10:47 PM #26
Shadow Mrs. Buckwheat
Posts:12,782 Threads:1,182 Joined:Feb 2011
(07-19-2014, 10:07 PM)failboat Wrote:  prices will rise again. i'm not talking about short term fluctuation here. i'm talking about the long term stuff.

That's called inflation. It isn't because the goods cost more, it's because the gov issued fiat is worth less.
07-19-2014, 10:51 PM #27
JayRodney ⓐⓛⓘⓔⓝ
Posts:31,286 Threads:1,438 Joined:Feb 2011
An... indirect tax.

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