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The Talvivaara Mine Disaster
11-24-2012, 10:49 PM #16
JayRodney ⓐⓛⓘⓔⓝ
Posts:31,280 Threads:1,438 Joined:Feb 2011
lmao.gif Most not even if they had shït their pants. İmage

wonder.gif
12-25-2012, 04:11 PM #17
Accidental Stoner Member
Posts:8,812 Threads:70 Joined:Feb 2011

Yes of course.

I just need the little occasional anger-spark
to keep the old pump going.

chuckle.gif

You are right, Ca -
if existence, then this.
Bet the drama plays out like a cosmic constant
on all planets like thisone.

:sigh:

doobie.gif


12-25-2012, 07:02 PM #18
オタマジャクシ Member
Posts:1,310 Threads:32 Joined:Nov 2012
Just looked at the site.

Huge mine. Main complex is 4 miles x 1 mile. There are three ancillary areas which are about 1000 m, 1/2 mile, and about 2 km from the main complex that occupy another 4 square miles with most of the area being unused (the second ancillary area has the settlement ponds). The settlement ponds cover about 4 hectares.


Uranium radiation isn't an issue (they always raise that to get people stirred up). There is 2.2 tonnes of uranium in the top foot of a square mile of dirt. There aren't two tonnes of uranium in the entire waste pond.

I'm not a mining engineer so this isn't my strong suit. Would like to know the depth of the water table in the area. From what I can tell the water table depth is 3 to 4 meters which is pretty shallow.

The heavy metals are a different issue. This waste handling issue is sort of frustrating (like the surface waste pits frackers use). The heavy metals are dangerous and have value. Why don't they line natural depressions so the waste won't leak away? Why don't they evaporate the waste so the residue can be recycled? Isn't there a cost effective technology to make the metals settle out as an insoluble precipitate? Can the water be filtered?

Lots of questions. The heavy metals aren't good and should be recovered or contained.

But when you look at the larger area - it is like they used a neutron bomb before the mine was established. There are roads, and what look like tree farms but the nearest "real farm" is about 3 1/2 miles away. Does anyone actually live in this part of Finland?

I understand the concerns but mining might actually be the highest use of the area.
12-25-2012, 08:02 PM #19
Octo Mother Superior
Posts:42,607 Threads:1,469 Joined:Feb 2011
Not a heavily populated area no. Not sure if this is the mine in question, but it should be somewhere around there.

<iframe width="425" height="350" frameborder="0" scrolling="no" marginheight="0" marginwidth="0" src="//maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&amp;ll=64.297951,28.355284&amp;spn=0.018538,0.084543&amp;t=h&amp;z=14&amp;output=embed"></iframe><br /><small><a href="http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&amp;ll=64.297951,28.355284&amp;spn=0.018538,0.084543&amp;t=h&amp;z=14&amp;source=embed" style="color:#0000FF;text-align:left">View Larger Map</a></small>
12-25-2012, 08:43 PM #20
オタマジャクシ Member
Posts:1,310 Threads:32 Joined:Nov 2012
100 hectares (approx 250 acres) have been polluted?

Huh? They have polluted under 4.8 % of the mining site.

Oh, THIS IS A NICKEL MINE NOT A URANIUM MINE!

The nickel ore they mine is NORM (naturally occurring radioactive material) and the locals say they are harvesting uranium as well as nickel. Well, GOOD FOR THE MINERS - THEY SHOULDN'T LET VALUABLE METALS IN THE ORE GO TO WASTE!.


Someone needs to get a grip here.


Mine pic.
   

İmage

Octo - we have really different mine pictures... My pictures are the Sotkamo mine in the Kainuu region, although the problem pond might be on the left of the top picture and not the right.

Not Finnish, don't speak the language, hopefully my pictures are the right mine.

12-25-2012, 08:59 PM #21
Octo Mother Superior
Posts:42,607 Threads:1,469 Joined:Feb 2011
chuckle.gif Like I said I didn't know if that was the Talvivaara mine, but it should be located in that area. I just browsed google maps.
12-25-2012, 09:27 PM #22
Accidental Stoner Member
Posts:8,812 Threads:70 Joined:Feb 2011
Good points, オタマジャクシ.

No, mining is nothing new in those areas and they are not
very densely populated.
I'm no expert either, but it doesn't seem like environmental
safety has gotten any better since the days of Outokumpu Oy
and into the Dragon Mining era...

Also feels kind of eerie to have foreign heavy interests involved
in various environmentally long-term-hazardous projects.
But I guess that is the way it is everywhere 13.gif

Found this:

http://www.ymparisto.fi/default.asp?cont...en&clan=en

while looking for figures on groundwater levels in the area. dunno.gif
Varies with weather and season, of course.

The mining complex seems to be pretty close to a few 1st and 2nd
class aquifers:

İmage

but not any really big ones..?

İmage

Oh well. Hope those people know what they are doing.
And that a few locals have gotten good jobs over there.






12-25-2012, 11:11 PM #23
オタマジャクシ Member
Posts:1,310 Threads:32 Joined:Nov 2012
Accidental - nice report.

It basically says that the heavy metals are going to get washed into the ocean where it isn't going to make a lot of difference (the whole area drains into the ocean).
12-26-2012, 02:56 PM #24
Accidental Stoner Member
Posts:8,812 Threads:70 Joined:Feb 2011

Hm...the sea is far away, whether you go West or South.
Whatever water moves in either direction has to pass miles
and miles of inland lake- and river country...

And neither the Bothnian nor the Gulf of Finland are particularly
deep nor very big - but yeah, won't make much of a difference,
at least not in the already shitty Gulf, guess that is correct.



12-26-2012, 03:13 PM #25
Kreeper Griobhtha
Posts:10,595 Threads:633 Joined:Feb 2011
If you want a good example of what can happen when mines open up then take a look at coal country West Virginia. Corrupt mine operators is a serious, and long standing, problem. It's not going to get any better. The only way to stop the damage is for you guys to seize the mines. I don't see that happening.


She is the richest woman in the world. They should close the mines and seize her accounts and use her money to clean up the mess. Too bad that isn't going to happen. No, they will continue playing this game of pretending to make attempts at stopping the leaks (Which is merely a distraction. I'll wager you have serious problems you don't know about.) and when they finish raping the land they will close the mine and vanish leaving the toxic mess for the people to struggle with. Don't be surprised if the mine changes hands a few times during this process. That is a normal tactic.

I am not your rolling wheels, I am the highway
I am not your carpet ride I am the sky
I am not your blowing wind, I am the lightning
I am not your autumn moon, I am the night
The night
12-26-2012, 03:25 PM #26
Accidental Stoner Member
Posts:8,812 Threads:70 Joined:Feb 2011
Yup.





F**k.

12-26-2012, 09:09 PM #27
オタマジャクシ Member
Posts:1,310 Threads:32 Joined:Nov 2012
(12-26-2012, 03:13 PM)Kreeper Wrote:  If you want a good example of what can happen when mines open up then take a look at coal country West Virginia. Corrupt mine operators is a serious, and long standing, problem. It's not going to get any better. The only way to stop the damage is for you guys to seize the mines. I don't see that happening.


She is the richest woman in the world. They should close the mines and seize her accounts and use her money to clean up the mess. Too bad that isn't going to happen. No, they will continue playing this game of pretending to make attempts at stopping the leaks (Which is merely a distraction. I'll wager you have serious problems you don't know about.) and when they finish raping the land they will close the mine and vanish leaving the toxic mess for the people to struggle with. Don't be surprised if the mine changes hands a few times during this process. That is a normal tactic.


Not sure who you are talking about. The Talvivaara mine is publicly held, No one has a controlling interest.
12-27-2012, 11:48 PM #28
Accidental Stoner Member
Posts:8,812 Threads:70 Joined:Feb 2011
Hm.

Many prominent politicians seem to hold shares in
Talvivaaran Kaivosyhtiö. Such as former Minister of
the Environment (geee, is there a pattern here?)
Paula Lehtomäki, heartland strongman Juha Mieto
and, of course, the President himself, Mr
Sauli Niinistö.

Says here: http://www.talvivaara.com/sijoittajat/os...ajarakenne
that 53% of the owners are private households. Most seem to have 101 -
500 shares.
The President owns 1200 shares, according to the press.
Mr Mieto over 12000.
The Lehtomäki family had invested around 270 000 € (officially), before
she (the Minister of the Environment) had to, umh, reorganize.

Here's a good one: the environmental consultant, Olli Salo (Lapin
Vesitutkimus Oy), held shares in the mine while doing his thing:
http://www.kaleva.fi/uutiset/pohjois-suo...aa/572293/

The leaking minewater showed rising levels of uranium back in March:
http://www.iltalehti.fi/uutiset/20121107...2_uu.shtml
haven't heard anything about it since 13.gif





12-28-2012, 03:32 AM #29
Shadow Mrs. Buckwheat
Posts:12,782 Threads:1,182 Joined:Feb 2011
Sorta like Enbridge pushing thru their bitumen pipeline from Alberta to Kitimat and on a tanker for China.

Quote:The proposed project would send bitumen via pipeline from the oil sands in Alberta to Kitimat. It would then be loaded onto tankers to be exported to Asia.

The video shows Douglas Channel as an open funnel leading from Kitimat to the Pacific. It ignores the narrow channels and islands that make up the access route.

http://www2.macleans.ca/2012/08/16/enbri...l-islands/

İmage

Sadly sad2.gif while everyone was fighting the bitumen pipeline, three other natural gas pipelines have been put in to Kitimat. it takes about a week to switch a pipeline from LNG to bitumen. Shipping super tankers through the Douglas Channel would take maybe one week to destroy the West Coast of B.C. Do they care?

Not to hi-jack the thread, but what the companies say is pure bullshit and all the info they put out is calculated disinfo.
12-28-2012, 03:42 AM #30
Shadow Mrs. Buckwheat
Posts:12,782 Threads:1,182 Joined:Feb 2011
Douglas Channel

İmage

lmao.gif



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