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What would the world be like if there had been no USA?
07-04-2014, 11:49 PM #31
Below Average Genius Member
Posts:1,781 Threads:136 Joined:Apr 2013
(07-04-2014, 10:26 AM)Octo Wrote:  
(07-04-2014, 10:13 AM)Below Average Genius Wrote:  
(07-04-2014, 10:07 AM)Octo Wrote:  If there had been no US, what version of Hollywood and cultural programming would we have? hmm.gif

There would be no Hollywood because making movies requires serious patent and copyright protection, and those two things were included in the Constitution.

That's why the US is so friggin wealthy. It was made possible by those two protections.


If there was no Hollywood some other movie production hub would dominate the markets. Might be a totally different setup, no need to follow the US constitution which would not exist anyway.

The reason things get invented under patent and copyright protection but don't get invented without it, is that there is no profit if anyone can steal your invention.

Without those protections, no one invents moving cameras, so there are no movies.

Pray for me. hug.gif
07-05-2014, 12:03 AM #32
Below Average Genius Member
Posts:1,781 Threads:136 Joined:Apr 2013
(07-04-2014, 10:35 AM)the white ribbon Wrote:  
(07-04-2014, 10:19 AM)Below Average Genius Wrote:  Not one inch different, you say?? The world would still be poor and its people enslaved or at least poor for the most part, and you would not be able to share your thoughts on the internet.

There would be almost no prosperity. Patent and copyright protection is what made America rich and has made other nations also start to become rich such as India, Russia, Europe, Israel and Brazil, along with places like Singapore and Hong Kong.

are you living on a diff planet? have you never travelled the world? (mexico and canada dont count)

havnt you heard of the british empire? we would have had everything and more, it would have made zero difference.. its as though you think that the migrants (from europe, that popultaed all our countries) that came to Murica had some finely tuned brains that their realtives that went to other countries didnt have..

the world would have prospered..

would have made zero difference..

The Uk got rich through conquest. Surely you know that.

Look what they did to India when they were there. The vast majority of the people were stunningly poor as they were in every other country the UK took over. Lots of slavery in India as well. There is still economic slavery in India as debt is inherited which makes families beholden for generations.

Let me try this one more time. Every person anywhere on the planet - including the USA - has the potential to be a bad person, using violence to get what they want.

The reason for the Constitution was to minimize that type of behavior. We are not morally superior here in the US, but we had a government format that helps to prevent the violent or the dictator from getting the upper hand.

The Founding Fathers understood man's weakness and desire to violently control others. If the Founding Fathers hadn't put together our constitution, the US would NEVER have become the richest nation on earth. Instead, we might have remained a little like Europe without the benefit of great Renaissance to benefit it and with slavery in the southern half along with indentured servitude in the North.

Of course the UK was in charge, and they were abusing the residents here, so we might have ended up much like Britain's other impoverished colonies.

Pray for me. hug.gif
07-05-2014, 12:09 AM #33
Below Average Genius Member
Posts:1,781 Threads:136 Joined:Apr 2013
(07-04-2014, 02:29 PM)Accidental Stoner Wrote:  No doubt we'd be typing this in Russian,
under very strict surveillance of the
Kommissaar...

Believing one special place more important
to spiritual freedom than any other sounds
like an illusion.




The spirit of freedom is everywhere, within
all peoples.

15.gif

Yes, as the Declaration of Independence recognized life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness was endowed by our Creator. That means all men and women have that innate spirit.

It took the US Constitution to make more of that possible.

Pray for me. hug.gif
07-05-2014, 12:27 AM #34
Below Average Genius Member
Posts:1,781 Threads:136 Joined:Apr 2013
(07-04-2014, 03:40 PM)the white ribbon Wrote:  im so sorry BAGGY if i ruined your 4th of july orgasm.. rofl.gifrofl.gifrofl.gif

nothing more annoying than Americans that think they are the superheros of the world we all live in.. a pet peeve of mine..

well i do hope you have a lovely day (when you wake up), and if you want to think what you think, then good for you buddy.. go team..

cheers.gif

How many Fekking times do I have to say we are no better than anyone else before it sinks in? How many times does one have to twist my words to take "we are no better" to turn it into "we are the superheroes?"

This thread isn't about we are great. It's about the miracle of the USA's founding and the effect it has had on the world at large.

The US is falling apart into a dictatorship. It's not likely that the US will still be the US in the future. How long it will take isn't known, but nations usually fall quickly rather than slowly. We've already done the slowly part, so the rapid disintegration could be coming real soon. We'll have to wait and see.

Complicating the situation is the disintegration of our physical health due to things like GMO foods, fluoridated water, and vaccines (plus a whole lot more.) With 30% of our teens on long term prescription medicine, I don't see any light at the end of the tunnel.

It's only a matter of time before we collapse from bad health.

All that said, the DOI and the Constitution were monumentally huge creations that made the world a better place.

As the US falls, the rest of the world will also fall, because no one else is strong enough to stop the megalomaniacs, including Iran, China and North Korea.

Pray for me. hug.gif
07-05-2014, 02:25 AM #35
Below Average Genius Member
Posts:1,781 Threads:136 Joined:Apr 2013
(07-04-2014, 06:04 PM)Octo Wrote:  If you guys were here I'd most certainly throw that big party for real party0003.gif

İmage

You and J-R are the best. cheers.gif

Pray for me. hug.gif
07-05-2014, 03:01 AM #36
White Ribbon call me
Posts:9,779 Threads:371 Joined:Apr 2013
13.gif

oh BAG..

the miracle of the US founding? lmao.gif

how has your constitution made the world a better place? chuckle.gif what is this strange obsession with a bill of rights and these guys that wrote it.. its like a cult..

the US doesnt invade and conquer? how did you get half your country?
07-05-2014, 08:54 AM #37
Below Average Genius Member
Posts:1,781 Threads:136 Joined:Apr 2013
(07-05-2014, 03:01 AM)the white ribbon Wrote:  13.gif

oh BAG..

the miracle of the US founding? lmao.gif

how has your constitution made the world a better place? chuckle.gif what is this strange obsession with a bill of rights and these guys that wrote it.. its like a cult..

the US doesn't invade and conquer? how did you get half your country?

Let me suggest you turn off your computer right now since you don't appreciate how the internet came into existence. Since you don't think it's better for you with the internet, say goodbye. Go back to your pre internet days and never use the internet again.

I've already told you several times how the world is better due to the Constitution. I gave you broad categories and specifics numerous times.

Did you know that in the Mexican American war the US conquered Mexico all the way to Mexico City?

But does the US claim all the land up to there? No we don't.

Yes, the US took some land from the various Indian Tribes. Those tribes had taken the land from other tribes, over and over again. We haven't taken land since before 1900.

It's now 2014. So it has been well over 114 years.

Look at how the Aussies have treated the indigenous tribes there. In a word horribly.

Like I said about a bazillion times now, the US is nowhere near perfect. Yet its form of government is the best ever devised. It is the land where people from all over the world want to move to.

No other government has become the model others aspire to and that has been adopted in various forms around the world.

Tell us about your country's form of government. When was it formed? What other nations or people look to your country as THE best place on earth for freedom and opportunity?

In the last 6 years, we have lost a good deal of our freedom and opportunities are tougher to come by. But up until 2009, the US was THE place in the world where people from every country hoped they could live either for freedom or riches.

Pray for me. hug.gif
07-05-2014, 09:25 AM #38
White Ribbon call me
Posts:9,779 Threads:371 Joined:Apr 2013
rofl.gif

copyright and patent law werent created in the USA, nor were computers..

the delusions you have are moronic.. its as though you think everything in the greater world is there because of America.. that is so false and so retarded.. as if without you we would be living in caves and wiping our butts with leaves from the garden.. thats what im annoyed about..

the British created your initial country, you just became independent after they did all the hard work..

Quote:Modern, electronic computers

The invention of electronic computers, which we are all to familiar with today, was done by Alan Mathison Turing, an English scientist.

About Alan Turing

Alan Turning was born on June 23rd, 1912 in London, England. He was very interested in mathematics and science during his school days. However, he went to a public school, Sherborne, where the emphasis was on classical subjects and not on science or mathematics. But this didn’t stop him from learning complex mathematical terms though. For example, even without studying elementary calculus, he studied Einstein’s complex questioning on Newton’s theory of motion and he did all of the learning, by himself.

The Turning machine

Alan Turning began to explore the possibilities of computing when he attended the King’s College in Cambridge for his undergraduate degree in Mathematics. He wrote a notable paper on computational numbers and its application. He also reformulated Kurt Gödel’s arithmetic, universal formal language with his hypothesis on the legendary Turning Machine. The Turning Machine was the first machine that can use algorithms to solve arithmetic problems. For many experts, it was the first, theoretical concept of a modern computer. The basic concept of the Turning Machine is still being taught in computer science and computation theory courses, all over the world.

The Automatic Computing Engine (ACE)

Based on his Turning Machine, he began to develop the Automatic Computing Engine or ACE during 1945 to 1947. He also presented a paper on the possibility that computers could execute stored programs, which is what our computers do every time we turned it on. Alan Turning developed other theories and concepts too, such as the halting problem, definable numbers, the Turing-Welchman bombe, Hut 8 and the Naval Enigma as well. He died on June 7th, 1954 in England.
07-05-2014, 09:31 AM #39
White Ribbon call me
Posts:9,779 Threads:371 Joined:Apr 2013
Quote:Development of the modern patent system

Patents were systematically granted in Venice as of 1450, where they issued a decree by which new and inventive devices had to be communicated to the Republic in order to obtain legal protection against potential infringers. The period of protection was 10 years.[9] These were mostly in the field of glass making. As Venetians emigrated, they sought similar patent protection in their new homes. This led to the diffusion of patent systems to other countries.[10]


The Venetian Patent Statute, issued by the Senate of Venice in 1474, and one of the earliest patent systems in the world.
King Henry II of France introduced the concept of publishing the description of an invention in a patent in 1555. The first patent "specification" was to inventor Abel Foullon for "Usaige & Description de l'holmetre", (a type of rangefinder.) Publication was delayed until after the patent expired in 1561.[10] Patents were granted by the monarchy and by others institutions like the "Maison du Roi" and the Parliament of Paris. The novelty of the invention was examined by the French Academy of Sciences.[11] Digests were published irregularly starting in 1729 with delays of up to 60 years. Examinations were generally done in secret with no requirement to publish a description of the invention. Actual use of the invention was deemed adequate disclosure to the public.[12]

The English patent system evolved from its early medieval origins into the first modern patent system that recognised intellectual property in order to stimulate invention; this was the crucial legal foundation upon which the Industrial Revolution could emerge and flourish.

By the 16th century, the English Crown would habitually grant letters patent for monopolies to favoured persons (or people who were prepared to pay for them).[13] Blackstone (same reference) also explains how "letters patent" (Latin literae patentes, "letters that lie open") were so called because the seal hung from the foot of the document: they were addressed "To all to whom these presents shall come" and could be read without breaking the seal, as opposed to "letters close", addressed to a particular person who had to break the seal to read them.

This power was used to raise money for the Crown, and was widely abused, as the Crown granted patents in respect of all sorts of common goods (salt, for example). Consequently, the Court began to limit the circumstances in which they could be granted. After public outcry, James I of England was forced to revoke all existing monopolies and declare that they were only to be used for "projects of new invention". This was incorporated into the Statute of Monopolies in which Parliament restricted the Crown's power explicitly so that the King could only issue letters patent to the inventors or introducers of original inventions for a fixed number of years. It also voided all existing monopolies and dispensations with the exception of:

...the sole working or making of any manner of new manufactures within this realm to the true and first inventor and inventors of such manufactures which others at the time of making such letters patent and grants shall not use...
The Statute became the foundation for later developments in patent law in England and elsewhere.


James Puckle's 1718 early autocannon was one of the first inventions required to provide a specification for a patent.
Important developments in patent law emerged during the 18th century through a slow process of judicial interpretation of the law. During the reign of Queen Anne, patent applications were required to supply a complete specification of the principles of operation of the invention for public access.[14] Legal battles around the 1796 patent taken out by James Watt for his steam engine, established the principles that patents could be issued for improvements of an already existing machine and that ideas or principles without specific practical application could also legally be patented.[15]

This legal system became the foundation for patent law in countries with a common law heritage, including the United States, New Zealand and Australia
. In the Thirteen Colonies, inventors could obtain patents through petition to a given colony’s legislature. In 1641, Samuel Winslow was granted the first patent in North America by the Massachusetts General Court for a new process for making salt.[16]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_patent_law
07-05-2014, 09:37 AM #40
White Ribbon call me
Posts:9,779 Threads:371 Joined:Apr 2013
Quote:The history of copyright law starts with early privileges and monopolies granted to printers of books. The British Statute of Anne 1710, full title "An Act for the Encouragement of Learning, by vesting the Copies of Printed Books in the Authors or purchasers of such Copies, during the Times therein mentioned", was the first copyright statute. Initially copyright law only applied to the copying of books. Over time other uses such as translations and derivative works were made subject to copyright and copyright now covers a wide range of works, including maps, performances, paintings, photographs, sound recordings, motion pictures and computer programs.

Today national copyright laws have been standardized to some extent through international and regional agreements such as the Berne Convention and the European copyright directives. Although there are consistencies among nations' copyright laws, each jurisdiction has separate and distinct laws and regulations about copyright. Some jurisdictions also recognize moral rights of creators, such as the right to be credited for the work.

Copyright are exclusive rights granted to the author or creator of an original work, including the right to copy, distribute and adapt the work. Copyright does not protect ideas, only their expression or fixation. In most jurisdictions copyright arises upon fixation and does not need to be registered. Copyright owners have the exclusive statutory right to exercise control over copying and other exploitation of the works for a specific period of time, after which the work is said to enter the public domain. Uses which are covered under limitations and exceptions to copyright, such as fair use, do not require permission from the copyright owner. All other uses require permission and copyright owners can license or permanently transfer or assign their exclusive rights to others.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_copyright_law
07-05-2014, 10:00 AM #41
JayRodney ⓐⓛⓘⓔⓝ
Posts:31,276 Threads:1,438 Joined:Feb 2011
In all fairness Tesla was one of the greatest geniuses of all time and was an American...
That immigrated from Serbia chuckle.gif
The way history/propaganda is portrayed in the States, it's no wonder some Americans don't even know other countries exist.

wonder.gif
07-05-2014, 10:47 AM #42
White Ribbon call me
Posts:9,779 Threads:371 Joined:Apr 2013
(07-05-2014, 10:00 AM)JayRodney Wrote:  In all fairness Tesla was one of the greatest geniuses of all time and was an American...
That immigrated from Serbia chuckle.gif
The way history/propaganda is portrayed in the States, it's no wonder some Americans don't even know other countries exist.

chuckle.gif

rofl.gif
07-06-2014, 03:48 AM #43
Below Average Genius Member
Posts:1,781 Threads:136 Joined:Apr 2013
(07-05-2014, 09:25 AM)the white ribbon Wrote:  rofl.gif

copyright and patent law werent created in the USA, nor were computers..

the delusions you have are moronic.. its as though you think everything in the greater world is there because of America.. that is so false and so retarded.. as if without you we would be living in caves and wiping our butts with leaves from the garden.. thats what im annoyed about..

the British created your initial country, you just became independent after they did all the hard work..

Quote:Modern, electronic computers

The invention of electronic computers, which we are all to familiar with today, was done by Alan Mathison Turing, an English scientist.

About Alan Turing

Alan Turning was born on June 23rd, 1912 in London, England. He was very interested in mathematics and science during his school days. However, he went to a public school, Sherborne, where the emphasis was on classical subjects and not on science or mathematics. But this didn’t stop him from learning complex mathematical terms though. For example, even without studying elementary calculus, he studied Einstein’s complex questioning on Newton’s theory of motion and he did all of the learning, by himself.

The Turning machine

Alan Turning began to explore the possibilities of computing when he attended the King’s College in Cambridge for his undergraduate degree in Mathematics. He wrote a notable paper on computational numbers and its application. He also reformulated Kurt Gödel’s arithmetic, universal formal language with his hypothesis on the legendary Turning Machine. The Turning Machine was the first machine that can use algorithms to solve arithmetic problems. For many experts, it was the first, theoretical concept of a modern computer. The basic concept of the Turning Machine is still being taught in computer science and computation theory courses, all over the world.

The Automatic Computing Engine (ACE)

Based on his Turning Machine, he began to develop the Automatic Computing Engine or ACE during 1945 to 1947. He also presented a paper on the possibility that computers could execute stored programs, which is what our computers do every time we turned it on. Alan Turning developed other theories and concepts too, such as the halting problem, definable numbers, the Turing-Welchman bombe, Hut 8 and the Naval Enigma as well. He died on June 7th, 1954 in England.

Inventions in England are protected by patent law. Chalk up another example from you that proves my point. You're doing a great job making my argument more solid.

Pray for me. hug.gif
07-06-2014, 03:56 AM #44
Below Average Genius Member
Posts:1,781 Threads:136 Joined:Apr 2013
(07-05-2014, 09:31 AM)the white ribbon Wrote:  
Quote:Development of the modern patent system

Patents were systematically granted in Venice as of 1450, where they issued a decree by which new and inventive devices had to be communicated to the Republic in order to obtain legal protection against potential infringers. The period of protection was 10 years.[9] These were mostly in the field of glass making. As Venetians emigrated, they sought similar patent protection in their new homes. This led to the diffusion of patent systems to other countries.[10]


The Venetian Patent Statute, issued by the Senate of Venice in 1474, and one of the earliest patent systems in the world.
King Henry II of France introduced the concept of publishing the description of an invention in a patent in 1555. The first patent "specification" was to inventor Abel Foullon for "Usaige & Description de l'holmetre", (a type of rangefinder.) Publication was delayed until after the patent expired in 1561.[10] Patents were granted by the monarchy and by others institutions like the "Maison du Roi" and the Parliament of Paris. The novelty of the invention was examined by the French Academy of Sciences.[11] Digests were published irregularly starting in 1729 with delays of up to 60 years. Examinations were generally done in secret with no requirement to publish a description of the invention. Actual use of the invention was deemed adequate disclosure to the public.[12]

The English patent system evolved from its early medieval origins into the first modern patent system that recognised intellectual property in order to stimulate invention; this was the crucial legal foundation upon which the Industrial Revolution could emerge and flourish.

By the 16th century, the English Crown would habitually grant letters patent for monopolies to favoured persons (or people who were prepared to pay for them).[13] Blackstone (same reference) also explains how "letters patent" (Latin literae patentes, "letters that lie open") were so called because the seal hung from the foot of the document: they were addressed "To all to whom these presents shall come" and could be read without breaking the seal, as opposed to "letters close", addressed to a particular person who had to break the seal to read them.

This power was used to raise money for the Crown, and was widely abused, as the Crown granted patents in respect of all sorts of common goods (salt, for example). Consequently, the Court began to limit the circumstances in which they could be granted. After public outcry, James I of England was forced to revoke all existing monopolies and declare that they were only to be used for "projects of new invention". This was incorporated into the Statute of Monopolies in which Parliament restricted the Crown's power explicitly so that the King could only issue letters patent to the inventors or introducers of original inventions for a fixed number of years. It also voided all existing monopolies and dispensations with the exception of:

...the sole working or making of any manner of new manufactures within this realm to the true and first inventor and inventors of such manufactures which others at the time of making such letters patent and grants shall not use...
The Statute became the foundation for later developments in patent law in England and elsewhere.


James Puckle's 1718 early autocannon was one of the first inventions required to provide a specification for a patent.
Important developments in patent law emerged during the 18th century through a slow process of judicial interpretation of the law. During the reign of Queen Anne, patent applications were required to supply a complete specification of the principles of operation of the invention for public access.[14] Legal battles around the 1796 patent taken out by James Watt for his steam engine, established the principles that patents could be issued for improvements of an already existing machine and that ideas or principles without specific practical application could also legally be patented.[15]

This legal system became the foundation for patent law in countries with a common law heritage, including the United States, New Zealand and Australia
. In the Thirteen Colonies, inventors could obtain patents through petition to a given colony’s legislature. In 1641, Samuel Winslow was granted the first patent in North America by the Massachusetts General Court for a new process for making salt.[16]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_patent_law

Now you've gotten really bad with your arguments. Did you even read what you copied and pasted??? For example read the parts I've highlighted for you.

IOW, the patents of old were nothing like the ones provided by US patent law.

Furthermore, there is a huge difference between passing legislation that creates or modifies a patent law and a Constitutional directive that names it as a right.

Laws can be changed by the whim of the king or the parliament. Constitutional rights are much more durable and offer much greater protection.

Next time you cut and paste something, read it first.

Pray for me. hug.gif
07-06-2014, 04:07 AM #45
Below Average Genius Member
Posts:1,781 Threads:136 Joined:Apr 2013
(07-05-2014, 10:00 AM)JayRodney Wrote:  In all fairness Tesla was one of the greatest geniuses of all time and was an American...
That immigrated from Serbia chuckle.gif
The way history/propaganda is portrayed in the States, it's no wonder some Americans don't even know other countries exist.

Tesla is a great example of the value of US patent protection because it illustrates how even the most brilliant mind couldn't fully flourish without patient protection.

While Tesla was in Europe, he made several improvements in telephony. But no patents were issued.

So he came to the US. It is in the US where his many great inventions were made and patented. The US Supreme court ruled that Tesla - not Marconi - invented the first radio.

Pray for me. hug.gif



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