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Why drug testing of welfare recipients is a bad idea
03-03-2013, 06:11 PM #16
TheMadHatter Member
Posts:15 Threads:1 Joined:Feb 2013
Where do you get this $75 a person number?

The police use a much cheaper version for things like DUIs and probation tests that cost a couple bucks each.

I would like to see where the data comes from proving these cost otherwise pee in the cup if you want help or just get a freaking job and not our problem.
03-03-2013, 09:58 PM #17
Wicked Oblivion Member
Posts:10,778 Threads:720 Joined:Oct 2012
(03-03-2013, 11:09 AM)whaler Wrote:  soooo......... what is the colour of the number 4 ?
rofl.gif

Green,as in ROYGBIV,red,orange,yellow,green,blue,indigo violet,the colors of the visible spectrum,green being the 4th color (*-*)
JollyRoger Show this Post
03-03-2013, 10:01 PM #18
JollyRoger Incognito Anonymous
 
I don't know about you, but I don't like giving money for taxes that goes to welfare recipients who just take that money and buy crack with it. Or even trade food stamps for drugs.

Once you accept money from the Govt., you submit to their rules pertaining to the receipt of said money.

If you don't like the regulations or attempts to reform welfare...

Don't use it. And if you do, don't buy drugs with it.
03-04-2013, 12:52 AM #19
Captain Six Member
Posts:80 Threads:6 Joined:Mar 2013
(03-03-2013, 04:27 PM)Shadow Wrote:  reading.gif Interesting, did you write that Captain Six? Good job. Nice to see someone going beyond the misconceptions of welfare. This is slightly o/t but relevant in how it shows the irrational approach of 'authority' to mj.

http://kritterbox.com/showthread.php?tid=11341


I did see that in the news. Another Gestapo money-maker. It's not even just the weed either, but even prescription meds, like steroids. Think of how many cops will be driving around technically illegally because they are juicers.

STATION.6.UNDERGROUND - "The hottest places in Hell are reserved for those who in time of great moral crises maintain their neutrality." ~Dante Aleghieri


03-04-2013, 12:57 AM #20
Captain Six Member
Posts:80 Threads:6 Joined:Mar 2013
(03-03-2013, 05:32 PM)I⊥∀NIW∩LLIʞ Wrote:  I live in FLorida where people trade their ebt card for pills so I think it is a good thing to test people. If they're using then they should have a choice either get help or get a job to support their habit.


What business is it of yours if they trade their food for pills? Because you pay for welfare in your taxes? So you want to spend BILLIONS of dollars MORE just to make a drug addicts' life even more difficult?

Forcing someone to get help is contrary to the very premise of getting help in the first place, which was pointed out in the article.

As far as getting a job goes, work has been a requirement for welfare since 1996. The reason a lot of people on welfare are not working is simply because the jobs don't exist. For every job opening in America today, there are 4 applicants. And that is only counting the recently unemployed. Long term are not counted in BLS stats.

STATION.6.UNDERGROUND - "The hottest places in Hell are reserved for those who in time of great moral crises maintain their neutrality." ~Dante Aleghieri


03-04-2013, 01:03 AM #21
Captain Six Member
Posts:80 Threads:6 Joined:Mar 2013
(03-03-2013, 06:11 PM)TheMadHatter Wrote:  Where do you get this $75 a person number?

The police use a much cheaper version for things like DUIs and probation tests that cost a couple bucks each.

I would like to see where the data comes from proving these cost otherwise pee in the cup if you want help or just get a freaking job and not our problem.


The cost of the test is more than just test strip itself. The drug testing company charges a rate. In Florida I believe that actually turned out to be $55 per test, by the company owned by the Governor who made the law. Talk about conflict of interest.

But now on top of the $55, you have to factor in the cost in man-hours and all the paper shuffling that goes along with it. Basically you are creating a whole new agency of the welfare department, all on the taxpayer dime.

A massive expansion of welfare does not shrink welfare or save money, not matter how you figure it.

STATION.6.UNDERGROUND - "The hottest places in Hell are reserved for those who in time of great moral crises maintain their neutrality." ~Dante Aleghieri


03-04-2013, 01:05 AM #22
Captain Six Member
Posts:80 Threads:6 Joined:Mar 2013
(03-03-2013, 10:01 PM)JollyRoger Wrote:  I don't know about you, but I don't like giving money for taxes that goes to welfare recipients who just take that money and buy crack with it. Or even trade food stamps for drugs.

Once you accept money from the Govt., you submit to their rules pertaining to the receipt of said money.

If you don't like the regulations or attempts to reform welfare...

Don't use it. And if you do, don't buy drugs with it.


Only 2% of people on welfare use drugs.

Should college students have to submit to a monthly drug test of they are getting a government grant?

Should you have to submit to a drug test in order to get your tax return?

Should a drug addict be left to starve in the streets?


STATION.6.UNDERGROUND - "The hottest places in Hell are reserved for those who in time of great moral crises maintain their neutrality." ~Dante Aleghieri


03-04-2013, 01:21 AM #23
TheMadHatter Member
Posts:15 Threads:1 Joined:Feb 2013
(03-04-2013, 01:03 AM)Captain Six Wrote:  
(03-03-2013, 06:11 PM)TheMadHatter Wrote:  Where do you get this $75 a person number?

The police use a much cheaper version for things like DUIs and probation tests that cost a couple bucks each.

I would like to see where the data comes from proving these cost otherwise pee in the cup if you want help or just get a freaking job and not our problem.


The cost of the test is more than just test strip itself. The drug testing company charges a rate. In Florida I believe that actually turned out to be $55 per test, by the company owned by the Governor who made the law. Talk about conflict of interest.

But now on top of the $55, you have to factor in the cost in man-hours and all the paper shuffling that goes along with it. Basically you are creating a whole new agency of the welfare department, all on the taxpayer dime.

A massive expansion of welfare does not shrink welfare or save money, not matter how you figure it.


Again, where is the data to back this up?
Maybe a link?
03-04-2013, 01:25 AM #24
KILLUMINATI Made Ya Look!!
Posts:4,764 Threads:1,046 Joined:Jun 2012
(03-04-2013, 12:57 AM)Captain Six Wrote:  
(03-03-2013, 05:32 PM)I⊥∀NIW∩LLIʞ Wrote:  I live in FLorida where people trade their ebt card for pills so I think it is a good thing to test people. If they're using then they should have a choice either get help or get a job to support their habit.


What business is it of yours if they trade their food for pills? Because you pay for welfare in your taxes? So you want to spend BILLIONS of dollars MORE just to make a drug addicts' life even more difficult?

Forcing someone to get help is contrary to the very premise of getting help in the first place, which was pointed out in the article.

As far as getting a job goes, work has been a requirement for welfare since 1996. The reason a lot of people on welfare are not working is simply because the jobs don't exist. For every job opening in America today, there are 4 applicants. And that is only counting the recently unemployed. Long term are not counted in BLS stats.


The welfare system is a joke and a large number of people cheat the system which cost billions as well.

When you test the person and they're positive the check gets cut off which much cheaper than the testing. When you weed out the people cheating the system and people using while on welfare that saves billions.
03-04-2013, 01:27 AM #25
TheMadHatter Member
Posts:15 Threads:1 Joined:Feb 2013
(03-04-2013, 12:57 AM)Captain Six Wrote:  
(03-03-2013, 05:32 PM)I⊥∀NIW∩LLIʞ Wrote:  I live in FLorida where people trade their ebt card for pills so I think it is a good thing to test people. If they're using then they should have a choice either get help or get a job to support their habit.


What business is it of yours if they trade their food for pills? Because you pay for welfare in your taxes? So you want to spend BILLIONS of dollars MORE just to make a drug addicts' life even more difficult?

Forcing someone to get help is contrary to the very premise of getting help in the first place, which was pointed out in the article.

As far as getting a job goes, work has been a requirement for welfare since 1996. The reason a lot of people on welfare are not working is simply because the jobs don't exist. For every job opening in America today, there are 4 applicants. And that is only counting the recently unemployed. Long term are not counted in BLS stats.


What business is it of ours?!

They aren't trading their food for pills they are trading our money for them, that card isn't food it's tax dollars, they aren't going to safeway getting some food then going to their dealer trading fruit roll-ups for some smack.

What they are doing is called fraud which is illegal if they want to do drugs I don't care but I do care is if American tax payers are footing the bill so passing a drug test that you still haven't proven would be the cost you claim it to be because they have instant test not just blood test that do cost around the range you are speaking of but nothing you have shown proves this is the test they would have to submit to and even if they did the number of applicants would drop substantially due to the fact that drug users know they are dirty and wouldn't apply just like when an employer advertises they drug test for employment, the druggies don't show up.
03-04-2013, 01:27 AM #26
KILLUMINATI Made Ya Look!!
Posts:4,764 Threads:1,046 Joined:Jun 2012
(03-04-2013, 01:05 AM)Captain Six Wrote:  
(03-03-2013, 10:01 PM)JollyRoger Wrote:  I don't know about you, but I don't like giving money for taxes that goes to welfare recipients who just take that money and buy crack with it. Or even trade food stamps for drugs.

Once you accept money from the Govt., you submit to their rules pertaining to the receipt of said money.

If you don't like the regulations or attempts to reform welfare...

Don't use it. And if you do, don't buy drugs with it.


Only 2% of people on welfare use drugs.

Should college students have to submit to a monthly drug test of they are getting a government grant?

Should you have to submit to a drug test in order to get your tax return?

Should a drug addict be left to starve in the streets?


How do you know only 2% are using without the testing ? I don't think you thought this argument through.
03-04-2013, 01:32 AM #27
TheMadHatter Member
Posts:15 Threads:1 Joined:Feb 2013
(03-04-2013, 01:25 AM)I⊥∀NIW∩LLIʞ Wrote:  
(03-04-2013, 12:57 AM)Captain Six Wrote:  
(03-03-2013, 05:32 PM)I⊥∀NIW∩LLIʞ Wrote:  I live in FLorida where people trade their ebt card for pills so I think it is a good thing to test people. If they're using then they should have a choice either get help or get a job to support their habit.


What business is it of yours if they trade their food for pills? Because you pay for welfare in your taxes? So you want to spend BILLIONS of dollars MORE just to make a drug addicts' life even more difficult?

Forcing someone to get help is contrary to the very premise of getting help in the first place, which was pointed out in the article.

As far as getting a job goes, work has been a requirement for welfare since 1996. The reason a lot of people on welfare are not working is simply because the jobs don't exist. For every job opening in America today, there are 4 applicants. And that is only counting the recently unemployed. Long term are not counted in BLS stats.


The welfare system is a joke and a large number of people cheat the system which cost billions as well.

When you test the person and they're positive the check gets cut off which much cheaper than the testing. When you weed out the people cheating the system and people using while on welfare that saves billions.


Very good point, even at $75 a person it's still much lower than the few hundred dollar check they would get every month I would even agree with a part of the bill saying that if you fail the test you become ineligible for benefits for the next 12 months.
03-04-2013, 01:37 AM #28
TheMadHatter Member
Posts:15 Threads:1 Joined:Feb 2013
(03-04-2013, 01:05 AM)Captain Six Wrote:  
(03-03-2013, 10:01 PM)JollyRoger Wrote:  I don't know about you, but I don't like giving money for taxes that goes to welfare recipients who just take that money and buy crack with it. Or even trade food stamps for drugs.

Once you accept money from the Govt., you submit to their rules pertaining to the receipt of said money.

If you don't like the regulations or attempts to reform welfare...

Don't use it. And if you do, don't buy drugs with it.


Only 2% of people on welfare use drugs.

Should college students have to submit to a monthly drug test of they are getting a government grant?

Should you have to submit to a drug test in order to get your tax return?

Should a drug addict be left to starve in the streets?


1. Proof of "Only 2% of people on welfare use drugs"?

2. "college students" Yes, why not?

3. "tax return" If it was government assistance I would say yes but since it's your own money that you are getting back because you over paid then no.

4. "drug addict be left to starve in the streets" Yes, if they wont get off the dope or can't hold a job then they are just a drag on society, remember "your fare share" well they are not doing anything but dragging us all down with them and taking away from those that truly do need the help.
03-04-2013, 02:03 AM #29
Captain Six Member
Posts:80 Threads:6 Joined:Mar 2013
(03-04-2013, 01:21 AM)TheMadHatter Wrote:  
(03-04-2013, 01:03 AM)Captain Six Wrote:  
(03-03-2013, 06:11 PM)TheMadHatter Wrote:  Where do you get this $75 a person number?

The police use a much cheaper version for things like DUIs and probation tests that cost a couple bucks each.

I would like to see where the data comes from proving these cost otherwise pee in the cup if you want help or just get a freaking job and not our problem.


The cost of the test is more than just test strip itself. The drug testing company charges a rate. In Florida I believe that actually turned out to be $55 per test, by the company owned by the Governor who made the law. Talk about conflict of interest.

But now on top of the $55, you have to factor in the cost in man-hours and all the paper shuffling that goes along with it. Basically you are creating a whole new agency of the welfare department, all on the taxpayer dime.

A massive expansion of welfare does not shrink welfare or save money, not matter how you figure it.


Again, where is the data to back this up?
Maybe a link?



Average cost in 2002 was $42 dollars.

U.S. Dep’t of Educ., Robert L. DuPont, Teresa G. Campbell and Jacqueline J. Mazza, Report of a Preliminary Study: Elements of a Successful School-Based Student Drug Testing Program 8 (2002)


But even if the test only cost $5 you are STILL spending MORE money on EXPANDING welfare.

STATION.6.UNDERGROUND - "The hottest places in Hell are reserved for those who in time of great moral crises maintain their neutrality." ~Dante Aleghieri


03-04-2013, 02:12 AM #30
TheMadHatter Member
Posts:15 Threads:1 Joined:Feb 2013
(03-04-2013, 01:27 AM)I⊥∀NIW∩LLIʞ Wrote:  
(03-04-2013, 01:05 AM)Captain Six Wrote:  
(03-03-2013, 10:01 PM)JollyRoger Wrote:  I don't know about you, but I don't like giving money for taxes that goes to welfare recipients who just take that money and buy crack with it. Or even trade food stamps for drugs.

Once you accept money from the Govt., you submit to their rules pertaining to the receipt of said money.

If you don't like the regulations or attempts to reform welfare...

Don't use it. And if you do, don't buy drugs with it.


Only 2% of people on welfare use drugs.

Should college students have to submit to a monthly drug test of they are getting a government grant?

Should you have to submit to a drug test in order to get your tax return?

Should a drug addict be left to starve in the streets?


How do you know only 2% are using without the testing ? I don't think you thought this argument through.


Even at 2% of people getting some kind of welfare assistance (56,600,000) it comes to 1,132,000 people using drugs, now if we multiply that buy say $400 a month (some more some less depending on size of household including foodstamps) it comes out to $452,800,000 a month that's $5,433,600,000 of the $131.9 billion we spend annually...

The cost of drug testing everyone of the 56.6 million recipients (including unemployment applicants) at $75 each would come to $4,245,000,000 that's a 1.2 billion dollar annual savings if your 2% number is accurate. (still waiting on your data to prove this)

http://www.welfareinfo.org/payments/
http://www.statisticbrain.com/welfare-statistics/

Here are some crazy welfare statistics, $17.50 an hour!

Top 10 Hourly Wage Equivalent Welfare States in U.S.

State Hourly . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Wage Equivalent
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hawaii . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$17.50
Alaska . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$15.48
Massachusetts . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$14.66
Connecticut . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$14.23
Washington, D.C. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$13.99
New York . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $13.13
New Jersey . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $12.55
Rhode Island . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $12.55
California . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $11.59
Virginia . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $11.11



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