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World's oldest beer to be recreated
03-15-2013, 03:44 AM #16
UniqueStranger Art in my heart
Posts:14,898 Threads:420 Joined:Jun 2012
(03-15-2013, 03:42 AM)Your Mom Wrote:  
(03-15-2013, 02:06 AM)UniqueStranger Wrote:  
(03-14-2013, 09:52 PM)UniqueStranger Wrote:  
(03-14-2013, 09:41 PM)Anonymous Kritter Wrote:  It's all about the yeast so I assume they found some they could culture?

Can't accurately recreate any brew without the yeast.

When the same yeast is used for many years it changes. It adapts to that particular brew. Refining the characteristics it imparts. It is no longer the same yeast it started out as and you can not brew the same beer without it even if you use the same process with the exact same ingredients.


Yes, that makes alot of sense.


Therefore, what you are implying is that this company will never be able to replicate it.


If they have access to a bottle of the beer, I'm sure that, even aftar all this time, they should be able to cultivate it.

But, seriously, who is there to taste it and complain it's not the same beer they remember? lmao.gif

beercheer.gifcheers.gif


Yes, and who is to say that was the absolute best beer they took on that voyage.

beercheer.gif
03-16-2013, 06:05 AM #17
skeeter Member
Posts:3 Threads:0 Joined:Mar 2013
cheers.gif
03-16-2013, 09:24 PM #18
Your Mom Member
Posts:68 Threads:2 Joined:Mar 2013
I'm not so sure the beer in the OP is the oldest as I found a recipe a couple of years older.


An Ancient Recipe for Beer

If you look at a field of wheat and a loaf of bread, you wouldn't guess that one came from the other. But we've known about the relationship for at least 10,000 years.

Bread really is the Staff of Life

Beer is liquid bread, and in ancient Sumer, beer making and bread making were different sides of the same coin. The Sumerians left us a recipe, on a clay tablet, for making beer.

It's the oldest recipe in the world.


Beer was made thousands of years ago in ancient Mesopotamia, and actual brewing records exist from this "dawn of civilisation."

These records are written in cuneiform script on clay tablets.


Hymn to Ninkasi
Ninkasi is the ancient Sumerian Goddess of brewing and beer and head brewer to the gods themselves. Her name means "The Lady who fills the mouth".

The Electronic Text Corpus of Sumerian Literature (ETCSL), a project of the University of Oxford, comprises a selection of nearly 400 literary compositions from ancient Mesopotamia.

One text, the Hymn to Ninkasi, is a set of instructions for making beer. It tells of baked grains being broken into pieces and stuffed into a pot. Water and aromatics are added (creating a basic mash and wort) and left to ferment.

You can read the Hymn to Ninkasi from ETCSL or stick with the easier-to-read text below.
The Ancient Recipe for Beer

You are the one who handles the dough with a big shovel,
Mixing in a pit, the bappir with sweet aromatics,

Ninkasi, you are the one who handles the dough with a big shovel,
Mixing in a pit, the bappir with honey,

You are the one who bakes the bappir in the big oven,
Puts in order the piles of hulled grains,

Ninkasi, you are the one who waters the malt set on the ground,
The noble dogs keep away even the potentates,

You are the one who soaks the malt in a jar,
The waves rise, the waves fall.

You are the one who spreads the cooked mash on large reed mats,
Coolness overcomes,

You are the one who holds with both hands the great sweet wort,
The filtering vat, which makes a pleasant sound,
You place appropriately on a large collector vat.

Ninkasi, you are the one who pours out the filtered beer of the collector vat,
Like the onrush of Tigris and Euphrates.
Don't forget the bread, a byproduct of making beer
Bappir is a twice-baked barley bread.

Here's a modern recipe for Bappir Bread

Hulled grains have the outermost hull removed (not the bran)

matrifocus
The ancient Sumerians kept their beer in large jars and drank them in a communal fashion.

These beers were often thick, more of a gruel than a beverage, so straws were used. Two or more drinkers would sip the beer through a straw, possibly to filter out impurities (through the teeth) or to avoid sludge at the bottom of the jar.

Perhaps they just liked drinking together.


Beer was so important that in the Code of Hammurabi (18th century B.C.E), beer shop owners who overcharged customers were to be put to death by drowning. (hopefully not in the beer vats).

http://www.squidoo.com/ancient-beer
03-16-2013, 09:27 PM #19
Octo Mother Superior
Posts:42,615 Threads:1,469 Joined:Feb 2011
I'm sure there are some much older beer recipes from all around the world. But this particular beer in the OP was still alive so they should be able to replicate it fairly well.
03-16-2013, 09:34 PM #20
Your Mom Member
Posts:68 Threads:2 Joined:Mar 2013
A lecture from the master brewer at Dogfish Head, Delaware, who has recreated the above recipe along with a Chinese fermented rice beer, recreated based on residue found in vessels dating back 9000 years.



03-16-2013, 09:42 PM #21
Octo Mother Superior
Posts:42,615 Threads:1,469 Joined:Feb 2011
Very cool. I just read this too about Sahti

Finnish Sahti has Protected Geographical Status in Europe.[1] In the United States, Sahti has been the subject of recent interest by homebrewers and microbreweries; in 2008, Dogfish Head Brewery released a beer called Sah'tea, a collaboration with Finnish brewer Juha Ikonen, that was a hybrid of traditional Sahti and Chai tea.

hmm.gif
03-16-2013, 09:46 PM #22
Cynicalabsurdance Member
Posts:8,266 Threads:191 Joined:Feb 2011
(03-14-2013, 10:02 PM)Octo Wrote:  I don't mind at all beerbong.gif



what's a mind ?

does it wear Nike's ?


Hey, Dibs ,,, old Nike's are worth Bucks on ebay
03-16-2013, 10:03 PM #23
Your Mom Member
Posts:68 Threads:2 Joined:Mar 2013
(03-16-2013, 09:27 PM)Octo Wrote:  I'm sure there are some much older beer recipes from all around the world. But this particular beer in the OP was still alive so they should be able to replicate it fairly well.


True, true, can't argue with that.

Would have loved a few glasses of that.

cheers.gif
03-16-2013, 10:04 PM #24
UniqueStranger Art in my heart
Posts:14,898 Threads:420 Joined:Jun 2012
They also found aged champagne. I wonder why they aren't trying to recreate that. dunno.gif
03-16-2013, 10:17 PM #25
Octo Mother Superior
Posts:42,615 Threads:1,469 Joined:Feb 2011
Yes I would have loved to taste some of it. I'm sure it was a little stale, but oh well. cheers.gif


They French would have to do that, US. Not too many grape growers here.
03-16-2013, 10:24 PM #26
UniqueStranger Art in my heart
Posts:14,898 Threads:420 Joined:Jun 2012
(03-16-2013, 10:17 PM)Octo Wrote:  Yes I would have loved to taste some of it. I'm sure it was a little stale, but oh well. cheers.gif


They French would have to do that, US. Not too many grape growers here.


I didn't read the whole story, where was the ship coming from and heading to?
03-16-2013, 10:30 PM #27
Octo Mother Superior
Posts:42,615 Threads:1,469 Joined:Feb 2011
I believe the ship sank between Finland and Sweden. A lot of booze has ended up on the bottom of the sea there.

Quote:Divers say they have found the wreck of a ship carrying a valuable load of cognac and liqueurs that sank during the First World War between Finland and Sweden.

http://yle.fi/uutiset/cognac_treasure_sh...nd/5297553

Quote:Newspaper Ålandstidningen reports that four of the bottles to be auctioned in summer 2012 are from the champagne house Veuve Clicquot, six are Juglars and one is a Heidsieck. The latter arouses particular interest since only four such bottles were recovered and just one will go for sale.

Last June, the province auctioned off two bottles of the 145 found in the shipwreck. A Juglar went for 24,000 euros, while a Veuve Clicquot fetched 30,000.

http://yle.fi/uutiset/lost_treasure_cham...er/5295940
03-16-2013, 10:39 PM #28
UniqueStranger Art in my heart
Posts:14,898 Threads:420 Joined:Jun 2012
(03-16-2013, 10:30 PM)Octo Wrote:  I believe the ship sank between Finland and Sweden. A lot of booze has ended up on the bottom of the sea there.

Quote:Divers say they have found the wreck of a ship carrying a valuable load of cognac and liqueurs that sank during the First World War between Finland and Sweden.

http://yle.fi/uutiset/cognac_treasure_sh...nd/5297553

Quote:Newspaper Ålandstidningen reports that four of the bottles to be auctioned in summer 2012 are from the champagne house Veuve Clicquot, six are Juglars and one is a Heidsieck. The latter arouses particular interest since only four such bottles were recovered and just one will go for sale.

Last June, the province auctioned off two bottles of the 145 found in the shipwreck. A Juglar went for 24,000 euros, while a Veuve Clicquot fetched 30,000.

http://yle.fi/uutiset/lost_treasure_cham...er/5295940


Wow, I wonder what it would taste like after all this time. I tried aged wine once during a wine tasting romp with my gals and it had taken on a smoky and complex nature; it was fabulous.
03-17-2013, 09:06 AM #29
Vlad Member
Posts:7 Threads:1 Joined:Mar 2013
I´m all for the alko,hehe but it make mew a bad apple if not stop before gone ai ai aicheers.gif



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